How do I unruin the 4 yo

[Imadehimlikethat]

So DS is just gone 4. He had a hard first two years in and out of hospital and that's left some long term issues. But in trying to compensate for them I've raised a scream tantruming child and I feel like I'm ruining his precious future.

For example he was tune fed for a long time and nil by mouth so when he finally asked for food we literally brought what he asked for so he'd eat. Now if we go into a shop he expects chocolate and a you so ideally a Kinder Egg etc.

I've indulged him quite a bit to make up for when he's had a hard time so now he expects a magazine if we go in the shop, a toy fro mtbe vending machine etc.

The answer to no is a tantrum. Full on jump up and down and scream job.

He knows which shops sell the things he wants so will specifically ask to go in them - tantrum if we don't, tantrum if we do but say no to a toy etc.

The guilt of the hard first two years plus a delay in his communication skills and some learning delay meant he was rewarded for I guess precocious behaviour - wanting to pick where we went, where he sits etc because it WAS cute and proof that he was communicating with us. Not if he doesn't get his own way we just get tantrums.

Nursery never see a tantrum or anger.

He will smack me when he's upset but says he's sad not angry.

Thing is I know this isn't his fault. He's a product of over indulgent parenting and that's mainly on me as a SAHP and def the softer one.

Attempts at reinstating boundaries lead to.... Tantrums!!

I between he's funny and loving and sweet. I just don't know how to stop all the bad parenting in a way that's going to make him into a lite boy who will make friends and do well I nschool and be happy as opposed to someone who cries if someoen else is on the slide at the same time!!

The tantrums have only got this bad over the last month but he's def quite "precious" in terms of getting upset if anything doesn't go totally his own way.

Have I screwed his life up before he's even got to school??

There is more to communication than just expressing wants there is now, but when your child cries at every food then picks up something unsuitable and yells, he gets the chocolate bar and a massive praise cuddle. Now he'll survey them, and tell me which one he wants and why which toy it contains Depending on whether it's appropriate he'll get told yes or no and why. He can happily express this want wmin advance and will ask DH to take him to the shop to get it. His communication over it is definately more sophisticated lol. And he gets told no, which is why he tantrums.
We haven't been into one shop in MONTHS because he simply can't do it. He's acting out from the minute he sees it so he doesn't get to go in there. There are boundaries. Otherwise we'd live in MacBloodyDonalds

rightreckoner
It strikes me that if you think you are making him sad and you feel sad yourself about the awful time you both went through, perhaps some counselling for you would be a good idea?

I really think this would be a very good idea. I think you are carrying a massive burden of guilt that is tearing you up inside.

I would be against giving anything to DS for a long time and substituting for treats/gifts time, activities, conversation.

The association of good behaviour with a reward based on a star chart or some such buildup of banked good deeds is something that reinforces materialism and takes from the parent child relationship. Children naturally want to please their parents, whom they are naturally inclined to love. I would be very wary of letting material tokens gain a foothold in a relationship between parent and child, or letting them come to symbolise love.

I would be against giving anything to DS for a long time and substituting for treats/gifts time, activities, conversation

Well that will teach me to not proofread after the cat jumps on my lap while typing

My intention here was to say - eliminate all treats and gifts from the equation for the foreseeable. Stick to time spent together, lots of chatting, lots of activities, lots of DS 'helping' you around the house and garden, music, fun.

Don’t beat yourself up about this. Some kids have tantrums and some don’t. My first once screamed for ten minutes in M and S because he wanted a pair of slippers. The second one never had a tantrum at all.

Just be firm and don’t give in. Speak kindly and tell the child your reasons for your decision when they have calmed down. We told ours that if they shouted they would never get what they wanted. It didn’t have much effect and the eldest just grew out of tantrums. Yours will, OP.

I did same with my son, magazines and a toy or sweet whenever out, he then came to expect them.

What's worked for me is 'the chat' before we go anywhere. We're going out today, and there will be no toys, no magazines, no treats, if you ask the answer will be no, no matter how you react it will still be no. If you shout and scream I will not take you to the shop again.

This did and still does work with my son. He's now 5.5 and is tantruming over having a new brother, the joys 🤔🤣

Extinction burst? Don't fall back and stop saying no - it WILL pass

It seems to me that the biggest problem here is that because of his rocky start you have internalised that his being unhappy or frustrated is part of something terrible that mustn't happen.

Of course that is true, or at least was true, to a certain extent when his illness made him unhappy in a way his peers would not be unhappy.

But the bit that gets let out of the equation is that frustration/unhappiness is also a normal and perhaps necessary part of growing up. If you do not allow him to experience that in a safe environment, then you are denying him one of the vital tools which he will need to negotiate life successfully. At the moment you are sending the signal that feeling upset and crying is something terrible, it must be, because mummy does everything she can to stop it. That is actually quite a scary thing to teach someone who is so young that he will inevitably end up being upset and crying from time to time.

With the shops I think the best way would be threefold:

clear rules from the start - you know you get sweeties/a magazine on Saturdays: now let's count: how many days to Saturday?

distraction when you enter the shop - can you help me get the oranges? let's see if you can help me count the tins of tomato?

absolute iron self-discipline in not showing any fear of your own if he does cry or tantrum; keep repeating to yourself that this is a natural part of his development - brief recognition: Yes I can see you're upset but remember what mummy told you, and then carry on as you were, briskly and cheerfully, and do not try to stop him crying. Crying is safe. He needs to know that. You need to know that.

I know it's hard; I had (still have) a child who with severe and incurable chronic pain. It's shit. But I can't take that away from her by buying her things. It just won't work. And it doesn't mean she also needs her life to be shit in other ways because she has never learnt the ordinary rules of being around people and managing her own frustrations. In fact, she probably needs to be better at that than other people do.

I just want to say fair play to you for acknowledging all of these issues. That's not an easy thing to do, to sit back and recognise that sometimes we get things wrong.

Be strong, you've already been given lot's of great advice above, the hardest bit is sticking to it. You can do it!

It's tough but you need to only reward good behaviour and ignore the bad. As long as it's safe, if you're being hit just carry on with what you're doing. Invest in a penny jar or star chart. He can have a magazine or treat when there's five pennies or stars. My dd hated being ignored and quickly learnt that good behaviour gets results more than screaming. It is tough ignoring it in a supermarket, but if you get people gutting just smile cheerfully and agree it's really noisy and annoying. It shouldn't happen more than a couple of times before he realizes it's doing nothing. Also don't be afraid to walk off with your shopping and appear to have left. You can't do anything until they calm down. Don't feel bad for saying no.

It's difficult when they've been ill, you feel you want to buy them the world, but you need to teach him so he won't be like that as an adult.

But the bit that gets let out of the equation is that frustration/unhappiness is also a normal and perhaps necessary part of growing up. If you do not allow him to experience that in a safe environment, then you are denying him one of the vital tools which he will need to negotiate life successfully. At the moment you are sending the signal that feeling upset and crying is something terrible, it must be, because mummy does everything she can to stop it. That is actually quite a scary thing to teach someone who is so young that he will inevitably end up being upset and crying from time to time

THIS^
A thousand times!

Crying is safe.

So well put, corythatwas

Well today didn't go without tantrums but I calmly explained that today isn't buy a magazine day and today isn't macdinalds day. He got a lollipop and a trip to the pub which he wasn't thrilled about to start with but accepted fine and actually think he was quite hangry, we inadvertently ended up going a very long way around where we were heading. DH made a positive comment about us keeping on doing what I've been doing which was nice.

Well done Imadehim! Sounds like you’re handling things well and projecting calm

Does splitting it up so he gets X no of segments and working it down work? Or tell him he has to clean his teeth after every time to make it less fun?

For goodness sake, never do this immediately after eating citrus fruit! He'll destroy his teeth!

Glad things improving OP! On your advice i have started only giving him a few segments at a time to slow down his fruit consumption - today we only had 7! Also started saying no, and he is actually a lot more accepting of it than i expected!

Haven’t read the full thread but OP you are doing great!

I have a five year old and it was all the same issues as you in her last year of nursery.

To get out of buying expected magazines we watched a programme about plastics in the sea and damage... each time she asked for a comic after that I reminded her of the plastic damage. It’s worked and I never buy comics and instead we stand at the checkout feeling sad about all the fish that have eaten a plastic toy...

I also encourage her to bring her own money to the shops - if she forgets it (because she faffs and plays around before leaving) I gently remind her she forgot her pennies but we will remember next time...

Finally I do a short list of shops we need to go to and why. If daughter wants to go to a shop - usually plastic tat hell smiggle - I will cheerfully say oh it’s not in the list for today, next time!

If he tantrums then pick him up and walk out of where ever you are. Don't go shopping for a while. Get a delivery pass and get your groceries delivered. Then you can go out without having to buy things and just teach him about looking. Purposefully teach him to deal with no. My dd is very controlling and stubborn so I make her wait for things at home even if she doesn't need to just to get her used to not getting her way. Eg if she wants a snack I'll say "in 15 minutes" she'll have a bit of a mini strop but I stick to the 15 minutes, she learns that the strop doesn't work.

Binge watch supernanny jo frost. Some of her techniques are very useful in changing behaviour and managing that change.
Both of you need to be on board. Your child will be starting school soon and needs boundaries. It starts with you dealing with the guilt of his early years and learning to deal with the battle in your head. Hell, he has had everything his way so it will be hard bit you are doing the right thing in starting now.

DH made a positive comment about us keeping on doing what I've been doing which was nice
This stood out.
I understand that you are probably doing the most if the parenting, and on sure you already do this but both of you have to have the same consistent approach to make things work long term. If not a child learns to play one off against the other.

Dp and I learned pretty quick yo be consistent and would back each other up. If we disagreed we still had a united front but discussed the issue away from ds' ears. DP would say something like ' i thought you were a bit hard on him there" and we would see what could be done different next time.

@Bouncingbelle glad it worked. Sometimes I think we assume they'll struggle with a boundary but actually they don't even care, as long as they're getting something thry want, even if it's just us.

@notacooldad we do pretty much, I am the softer parent although we both the indulgent parent of special child stuff I guess. I think it's more that previously both of us would spend longer talking it out and me especially offering compromises and alternatives whereas me being firmer encourages him to do the same. He does his share of solo parenting so it's good were largely in the same place. I just spoil him more.