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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How do I unruin the 4 yo

194 replies

Imadehimlikethat · 11/04/2019 13:46

So DS is just gone 4. He had a hard first two years in and out of hospital and that's left some long term issues. But in trying to compensate for them I've raised a scream tantruming child and I feel like I'm ruining his precious future.

For example he was tune fed for a long time and nil by mouth so when he finally asked for food we literally brought what he asked for so he'd eat. Now if we go into a shop he expects chocolate and a you so ideally a Kinder Egg etc.

I've indulged him quite a bit to make up for when he's had a hard time so now he expects a magazine if we go in the shop, a toy fro mtbe vending machine etc.

The answer to no is a tantrum. Full on jump up and down and scream job.

He knows which shops sell the things he wants so will specifically ask to go in them - tantrum if we don't, tantrum if we do but say no to a toy etc.

The guilt of the hard first two years plus a delay in his communication skills and some learning delay meant he was rewarded for I guess precocious behaviour - wanting to pick where we went, where he sits etc because it WAS cute and proof that he was communicating with us. Not if he doesn't get his own way we just get tantrums.

Nursery never see a tantrum or anger.

He will smack me when he's upset but says he's sad not angry.

Thing is I know this isn't his fault. He's a product of over indulgent parenting and that's mainly on me as a SAHP and def the softer one.

Attempts at reinstating boundaries lead to.... Tantrums!!

I between he's funny and loving and sweet. I just don't know how to stop all the bad parenting in a way that's going to make him into a lite boy who will make friends and do well I nschool and be happy as opposed to someone who cries if someoen else is on the slide at the same time!!

The tantrums have only got this bad over the last month but he's def quite "precious" in terms of getting upset if anything doesn't go totally his own way.

Have I screwed his life up before he's even got to school??

OP posts:
Fishfingersandwichplease · 12/04/2019 19:09

We are all told to praise good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour but l have now got a 7 year old people pleaser.....she was always a good toddler so although l used discipline from a young age with her, in general there was more praise poured on her than tellings off. She is so eager to be praised now that l wonder if l overdid the praise in her early years. So am just saying OP don't heat yourself up for doingnwhatbyou thought was right at the time. Look forwards not back....he is young enough to be retrained. Make new rules and stick to them...bad behaviour has consequences, at 4yo he will understand. Good luck xx

SwallowsInSpring · 12/04/2019 19:10

I’d also line up some phrases to use. For example-oh love, I can see you really want a magazine. It must feel so frustrating for you. But I’m not going to let you hurt me even though you’re so angry (then hold his hands so he physically can’t thump you etc). It helps me feel calmer anyway rather than just saying no, no, right you’re being horrible so definitely no, maybe if you’re good next week we can, but not today etc. No reasoning/bargaining and definitely no changing your mind, but equally I think it’s fine to be sympathetic to his moods.

LittleOwl · 12/04/2019 19:21
Flowers Imadehimlikethis - you sound like a lovely lovely mum.

I was going to say, comfort while you stand firm - and you mention you do this anyway. I found that worked best with my DS2 (who started tantrums at 12 months, and once cried for 1.5 hours until vomiting repeatedly at 3 months (we were stuck in a traffic jam so nothing I could do - I started very gentle car training afterwards in 5 minute chunks))
Even at 6 years now I explain to him that it is because I love him, and he is such a lovely person, I need to make sure he understands “you cannot always have everything”, “being bossy results in a straight no”, “you had enough sweets” ..... he might not stop being angry for a while, but it helps (like yours he is the sweetest boy otherwise) - and no - DS2 has not been overindulged - simply a strong personality testing out boundaries....

My DS1 was a bit overindulged, and no real tantrums... I am now working on getting DS1 to help with chores, and DS2 is an amazing helper...

Star please be kind to yourself, you are doing the best you can, you are a loving mum who has noticed you need to tweak matters, and you are tweaking them at cost to yourself Star

Hope this phase is soon over

flowergrrl77 · 12/04/2019 19:27

Not read the full thread, but, years ago, I had a 3oclock autistic exploder...

I was often told to ignore the bad behaviour and praise the good.

I couldn’t do this though, because the bad behaviour escalated to behaviour that could have injured his siblings (or worse!)

We worked with CAHMS eventually, it’s took a lot of work and patience and never ever bending. But use of the word choice was my saviour.

Everything is a choice. He might not like either choice... but he has to pick one, if he doesn’t he is, with his actions, choosing the consequence. Which will have been warned to him previously, the consequence is never something he didn’t know about in advance.

A simple way to explain is that I wanted him to sit at the table for a full mealtime. If he chose to get up at all (the first time he got up was a warning) then he chose with his actions not to have a pudding today. Very importantly I would also tell him the next time he would get the chance to make the choice again. (The next dinner tomorrow)

When he got cross I would empathise that I understood he was cross with his choice. Never ever bend.. and remind him again that’s he could choose again tomorrow.

Apply that slowly to more and more situations! Good luck

Yabbers · 12/04/2019 19:32

"in there!! I'm there!! I want a magazine. Please"
He said please! That’s a win 😍

I’m also with you on doctors just getting on with it. The nursing staff and doctors tend to get really loud and all of them chime in, trying to calm down a 4 year old when they are going to pull all their fingernails out one by one check their blood pressure. All just makes it worse!

GlitterMagicPompom · 12/04/2019 19:32

To cope with tantrums I did some online research and made across Janet Landsbury’s website which I have found invaluable. She has published quite a few articles about boundary setting, tantrums, etc... The approach is very much the gentle parenting ethos. So perhaps Theo website might be a great resource for you to look at. I hope it all settles down for you OP. It is so tiring and frustrating dealing with toddler tantrums. Good luck.

ZenNudist · 12/04/2019 19:39

Keep at it. Just say no. Stop buying crap all the time. You've already realised he doesn't appreciate it. Think about how much money you can save up for a bigger treat like a day trip somewhere really fun. You could get him to choose and then save and actually go there!

I think time to ditch the guilt. Kids do tantrum. Some dont (lucky those parents). My ds1 was still tantrumming at 7, thankfully calmed down lately but i was starting to despair. I still dont buy/ give them loads of toys or ply them with sweets and screen time, even though its what they want its not good for them.

I reckon he will catch on real soon. Good luck.

rightreckoner · 12/04/2019 19:40

I hesitate to advise as I have no personal experience but a good friend had a similar situation with her child. Exclusively tube fed. Slept with an adult in the room for years due to complex needs and risks of being left alone. Once her medical needs were stabilised (she was 6 or 7) they then had to start again with normal rules of behaviour and sleep training and just started implementing them really consistently. They were pretty tough months but they got through and behaviour is absolutely fine now.

I think consistency is key. And knowing that you are in charge. When you know and they know that you are in charge, you can bring about a lot of change.

If you are claiming to be in charge but ultimately you both know the child is in charge using the volume/length/ferocity of the tantrum to get you to give in, then nothing will change.

Also you are not the reason he is sad. You need to knock that thinking on the head straight away. In actual fact he's not really sad. He's seeing what he can get and throwing all his techniques at you. It looks like sadness, and I'm sure it's not fun for him but he's not sad. Not in a way that you need to pay much attention to. You are absolutely doing your job and sometimes that will result in a massive tantrum. So be it. When my DCs did this (no health issues in our case) I used to think "Bring it on. I'm tougher" Grin

It strikes me that if you think you are making him sad and you feel sad yourself about the awful time you both went through, perhaps some counselling for you would be a good idea?

truthisarevolutionaryact · 12/04/2019 19:46

This is such a lovely thread - you sound great OP and the advice you've had is really constructive. We are so hard on ourselves and there's really no such thing as perfect parenting - just good enough.
Friday night Flowers for you OP and also Flowers for nearly everyone on this thread for offering such great constructive advice .

Ginsodden · 12/04/2019 19:49

Sounds like he’s experienced some trauma in infancy and maybe more therapeutic parenting is needed rather than traditional parenting. I’d look at the Sarah Naish books.

slkk · 12/04/2019 19:50

Just to add, if he was in and out of hospital, he is likely to have attachment issues. If he does, reward charts won’t work and letting him have too much control or choice will be very scary for him. My son has these issues and needs to know the adults are in charge, have very firm boundaries and empathy when he is upset or angry. Do look up developmental trauma and therapeutic parenting. There are some excellent support groups on Facebook which will help with behaviour like this.

slkk · 12/04/2019 19:51

Cross post ginsodden!

LouJJersey · 12/04/2019 21:08

I think you’ve coped as we all would in a very hard situation!!! Good on you. Just be calm and consistent , it will work xxx

Riv · 12/04/2019 21:15
Flowers You are a great mum. Don't keep putting yourself down. You have had a very hard time until now. You have done what it took to get through in the best way you could for you and your family. You've got through the worst in one piece so you have obviously done something right! Quite a lot right I'd say. You've realised that now, as things are changing for the better, you need to change some of the 'ground rules' to match the different circumstances. More Flowers In your posts you react to a lot of excellent advice, often by realising that you are already doing most of the best things anyway. Flowers Sometimes you try things that don't work, or are too stressed to act in the way you feel you 'should'. - Thank goodness you are human. Give yourself a break and think of all the good things that you have achieved. A couple of so called 'mistakes' are just opportunities to learn after all. And they're not going to spoil anything long term. Please, try to remember all the special fun time you spend with your DS, all the many hours when he's behaving and being the lovely, kind, fun child you know. (and I bet there are a lot more great hours than grotty tantrummy minutes!) and give yourself a big round of applause (and maybe a Brew Cake Halo Wine )you deserve it.
PhilomenaButterfly · 12/04/2019 21:21

There's still time. Don't keep on indulging him or he'll be a whiny, emotionally manipulative 8yo. I know a DC like that.

Fiveredbricks · 12/04/2019 21:41

@notacooldad we plan on introducing 'No' more firmly and as a single sentence when our DS is more capable of understanding the reasoning why we've said "No...", rather than just hearing a flat out refusal. So maybe around 3 😁

He's 2 in 5 weeks and is already remembering and reading half the alphabet though (and phonetically 😳) so by 3 he might be parenting us instead 😂

Turnitaroundagain · 12/04/2019 21:51

He’s only 4, he’s suffered some trauma and probably had a lot of medications....all these things can cause developmental delays. Try not to compare him to others and be patient.

ToffeePennie · 12/04/2019 22:23

Just ignore the tantrums. Pretend you can’t hear him/see him. If he runs from you/pulls away/stamps you simply bend down and say “name, please walk nicely with me. If you can’t, there will be no x (reward - maybe extra video game time/frozen yoghurt/chocolate coin) when we are done.” If he continues you pick him up (still ignoring him) and either walk home/to the nearest “safe” space and wait it out.
It really is consistency, boundaries and repetition that’s the key to this. I have a 4 year old too and they respond best to positive praise (well done Henry, you’ve walked really nicely to the park.) and they hate a lack of response. Literally everything they do, they’re checking to see if someone anyone has noticed. Stop noticing it, get any other caregivers on board with it and lots of positive praise when he does demonstrate the behaviour you’d like to see and be consistent. It will be like a miracle.

Imadehimlikethat · 12/04/2019 22:32

Thank you for all the kind messages and glad a few other people are stealing them too. I will def look up all the recommendations. We did good today, went to the supermarket and kept reiterating we weren't buying toys. Let him look as he asked to look but kept reminding him. He was in the buggy haha but he did do good

OP posts:
ToffeePennie · 12/04/2019 22:36

Please give him lots and lots of really over the top praise about today. It will sound utterly ridiculous and patronising, but it really does work so well. Literally bomb him with praise and positivity - he will soon realise that being good also gets him the attention he is craving!

TriciaH87 · 12/04/2019 22:41

Set boundaries before you go out. Tell him which shops you need togo in and write a list for each of what you need. If it's not on the list you do not get it. Involve him in picking the items off shelves. Take healthy snacks to supermarket with you if risk of him being hungry at the time. Be clear before you go no treat today you can have one on..... Or next time. Start small. One shop short list. Anything he can reach he picks up for you else help him to get it. Distraction is key.

Marmaladesandwiches27 · 12/04/2019 23:44

OP I am in shock as I genuinely could have written this near enough word for word about my 4 year old DS. First couple of years all was well with his health (so we thought) but last year he had a difficult illness including ventilation on PICU followed by a life changing diagnosis and ever since everyone I know (me included) has spoilt him rotten because we love him so much and know how close we came to losing him, although obviously the extent of the treats tailed off after a time. It's not been an issue until the last 3 weeks and it's not so much the treats, it's more the way I've let him off in the past with 'cheeky and cute' behaviour, so that part of your OP really resonated with me. But lately, he's been downright rude and pretends not to listen to what I'm asking him to do (just normal things in our daily routine, I'm not a dictator!) and it's making life very difficult at the moment.

I guess what I'm trying to say is we've got to keep strong, this is just a phase and it too will pass. Just wanted to show some solidarity here and say my 4 year old is also a bit of a 'tike' right now Flowers

Kippenbelladonna · 13/04/2019 00:35

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mathanxiety · 13/04/2019 02:58

It's hard though isn't it because theyre actually communicating a want and that's so big.

Yes, his communication of wants is great, given the background.

But you are missing a teaching moment if you are overwhelmed by immense gratitude or amazement or overcome by guilt at that point and do not develop the conversation along the lines it must develop if DS is to learn the social and emotional skills he needs.

You have to give the answer you know you should once the want has been communicated. It won't stop him from expressing himself. With encouragement from you, he will engage in conversations, in duets, he will ask questions, you can ask questions, and he will give you his opinions. He will learn how to get along with people and accept the word No.

There is more to communication than just expressing wants. You have to move him past this stage, and being amazed at his expressing of wants to the extent that you do not use the opportunity to teach will backfire in a big way as he gets older, even moreso than it is backfiring now.

GlitterPixie · 13/04/2019 04:06

It’s good that you’ve realised the problem now while he’s still young enough to change and not turn into a complete horror like so many older kids/teens are because they’ve always been spoiled. There’s definitely good advice given on this thread. Best of luck OP