How do I unruin the 4 yo

[Imadehimlikethat]

So DS is just gone 4. He had a hard first two years in and out of hospital and that's left some long term issues. But in trying to compensate for them I've raised a scream tantruming child and I feel like I'm ruining his precious future.

For example he was tune fed for a long time and nil by mouth so when he finally asked for food we literally brought what he asked for so he'd eat. Now if we go into a shop he expects chocolate and a you so ideally a Kinder Egg etc.

I've indulged him quite a bit to make up for when he's had a hard time so now he expects a magazine if we go in the shop, a toy fro mtbe vending machine etc.

The answer to no is a tantrum. Full on jump up and down and scream job.

He knows which shops sell the things he wants so will specifically ask to go in them - tantrum if we don't, tantrum if we do but say no to a toy etc.

The guilt of the hard first two years plus a delay in his communication skills and some learning delay meant he was rewarded for I guess precocious behaviour - wanting to pick where we went, where he sits etc because it WAS cute and proof that he was communicating with us. Not if he doesn't get his own way we just get tantrums.

Nursery never see a tantrum or anger.

He will smack me when he's upset but says he's sad not angry.

Thing is I know this isn't his fault. He's a product of over indulgent parenting and that's mainly on me as a SAHP and def the softer one.

Attempts at reinstating boundaries lead to.... Tantrums!!

I between he's funny and loving and sweet. I just don't know how to stop all the bad parenting in a way that's going to make him into a lite boy who will make friends and do well I nschool and be happy as opposed to someone who cries if someoen else is on the slide at the same time!!

The tantrums have only got this bad over the last month but he's def quite "precious" in terms of getting upset if anything doesn't go totally his own way.

Have I screwed his life up before he's even got to school??

We did have a journey thing done but I think it was more for admissions than routine. We go I guess a dozen visits a year? One admission in Dec but nothing for ages and nothing planned. But paeds appt is in a few weeks and we have an amazing community nurse who is also a slightly neurotic mum like me haha so she gets me. will chat to her too.

It might not be anything you did I remember ds now 7 went through a phase at 3 or 4 where we had exactly the same to point we didn't take him into any large shops for months.

thanks Figgy but in all fairness, I think a Mom giving in every time you say "I want" doesn't help when she then decides she can't keep doing it

OP I want to give you , parenting is so tough at the best of times, let alone parenting going through everything you’ve gone through.

One thought occurred to me - can you walk there and get the bus back? We have had issues with DD (almost 6) and her behaviour and ability to cope with ‘No’ if far better when she’s not tired!

We had massive issues last term - when sensory issues peaked due to problems at school - and we did a combination of strategies - The Explosive Child was recommended earlier - I second this - the beauty of this book is that it helps regardless of diagnosis (or not). We have also implemented 1,2,3 magic by Thomas Phelan with great success. We ended up negotiating, persuading, bribing DD to do what needed to be done (school refusal). Then she started reacting to my reactions, my frustrations. 1,2,3 magic is basically time out but with clear warnings and a strategy for you. To paraphrase ‘Be the calm your child needs in that moment’. You have to say to yourself So what if they tantrum? They will get over it. Quite often my DD will be into her second time out before she’s calm enough to do ask I’ve asked. I’ve done it in public places. I’ll keep an eye but as long as she’s not in imminent danger, it’s fine to just stand back and let her get on wit it. If she’s in time out and anyone else passes comment - school caretaker certainly has! - I’ll say ‘We’re just having a moment’. I’m in control of the situation and it resolves in time. It’s hard to take back control when things have been tough, but honestly, it’s so empowering and things are so much better for us now.

Stop giving in. Reinforce that big boys don't have tantrums, now he's 4, etc. Once he has the tantrum he doesn't get the toy/ chocolate/whatever.

Praise him for staying calm when something is difficult and he doesn't get his own way. Reward good behaviour.
When you see him readying for it, go eyeball to eyeball and say you can have a tantrum if you like, but it won't make any difference because I have said no. But if you want to make a fool of yourself in public go ahead.

Accept that his ability to cope with frustration will be less if he is tired/ hungry/ overwhelmed.

So shame him essentially, and because he's a boy (and boys don't get upset, certainly not 'big' ones)?!

"If you want to make a fool of yourself in public go ahead" ?!

For real?

missymayhemsmum, that is all so unnecessary and unpleasant.

You don't shame or bully children out of having tantrums. You just don't allow them to influence your decisions. That will be why the OP's DS doesn't have them at nursery.

My MIL always used humiliation to control my DH. His behaviour was great but his relationship with her was awful until the day she died a very lonely woman.

Treat your children with the care and respect you want them to offer others as they mature.

can you walk there no. firstly it's the same route so I'd just past the shop on the way there and we've had issues with school this year already - new 121 etc. Plus it takes ME 20 minutes if he's in the buggy, 45 without it? 8.30 start. Generally, he ADORES the route home - one long road with trees to hug and leaves and a good long length to run down. That bit is tricky and sometimes the "we're not going in there" does work. Actually, it works better when I'm er consistent and firm lol. But yes, tiredness doesn't help. I feel like we're feeling this end of term, he's been cranky all week especially. I wil def look up those recommendations though, thank you

Missy I get the point about big KIDS not having tantrums but i get that they are about frustration, anger, sadness, unfairness (in his opinion). I don't want to shame my son from expressing his opinions. When he falls over, he cries. I sit on the floor and give him a cuddle and kiss it better then we get up and carry on. He has a feeling, he's not very mature at expressing it, but he can tell me that it's there. I feel the tantrums are similar - so yes, i have to no give in, but he's also allowed to be pissed off at me, upset etc. and to express that. I just need to help him work through to a way that does that without screaming (the jumping is cute, he can't jump like that when he isnt mad, he needs to hold on to jump two footed when he's calm)

Tell him before you even leave the house that you won’t be going into those shops or buying any treats today. You sound like a great mum and he a very loving little boy. 😊

I hear you. My DS is 2, non verbal, developmental delay esp with communication, possible ASD. If he manages to request something (leading me to it for example) i give him it to let him know i understood him, so rewarding the communication if you like? But his obsession with 1 particular food item is getting ridiculous & i dont see how i can say no to him incase he stops communicating? Im a bit at a loss!

Let him have his tantrums, sit and watch then ask if that's the best he can do? can't he get any louder?
The more you give in, the more he will do it.
If you appear not to be bothered by his tantrums, they will get less and less and then stop.

Bouncing what is the food?

I just want to say after reading everything - you are doing brilliantly. It doesnt matter how 'normal' parents are doing things, you have done what you needed to do to get him through this. And that is absolutely fine. You've had some good suggestions from everyone on here, my suggestion would be to look for a 'additional needs support' group on facebook for gastro parents, I bet they'll have some tricks up their sleeves regarding everything too :)

Imadehimlikethat - its tangerines. So not unhealthy per se but 10 a day?!

For the main road tantrums reigns or he threat of them will be helpful. Can be less embarrassing to a 4 year old backpack reigns with a front clip if he won't get out of that swiftly mid tantrum.

Talk to him before you go anywhere. Tell him you are not going to the shop. Tell him if he throws a tantrum you are both going home. Shake on it, tell him you have a deal.

Then if he tantrums, remind him of your deal and take him home. Do this consistently. Never, ever give in to a tantrum and his first tantrum while out on any given day is his last, because you go home immediately and you do not go out again that day.

Wrt his opinions - tell him he must use his words, no screeching. Tell him you will always listen, that you want to hear how he feels. But remind him that doesn't mean you will get him stuff. He can tell you about his feelings of disappointment. You can hug.

When you are walking along, talk about things you see, birds, trees, plants, anything unusual. Or sing together.

You are giving him things to make yourself feel better really, if you think about it..

Give him time and activities with you instead. Your undivided attention. Lots of reading, lots of singing, lots of art, lots of jumping in puddles together, sensory experiences.

If he falls over don't make a big deal of it. Just a quick " oops, jump up, there we go". If he's crying a quick "kiss it better" then move on. Don't dwell on it or that will become a way of life. Build resilience by not making a deal of it.

Regarding tantrums. It's going to get worse before it gets better. A tantrum normally works and gets him his own way, so if you don't give in at first, he'll need to up the ante and tantrum harder until you do give in. He needs to learn this won't work either before he realises it's not worth a tantrum. So expect it to get worse to begin with and ride it out.

View it as being cruel to be kind to not let him get his own way. Don't avoid situations. Just ride them out. I remember a time or two when I had to put a tantrumming child under my arm and remove them from a shop. I just smiled at people and rolled my eyes with a "tantrums eh" type comment. Most people are sympathetic having been there before. They will see you calmly dealing with a situation and being humorous about it. Ignore any tutting.

I overcompensated materially for my ds’s Dad abandoning him so I get it all though for different reasons.

I would say due to a long time in hospital and developmental delays. You are probably still dealing with the 2 year old tantrums.

What stands out to me is you are giving too much attention to the bad behaviour. If he hits you a no . He already knows it hurts . You have told him before. Yes he doesn’t have to feel happy he is not getting a magazine but ignore the negative .

I would tell him we don’t buy magazines here anymore . As you walk home chat about what he did at nursery, who he played with, what he can do when he gets home . If he asks for magazine no . Carry on walking chatting.

I am an adult and don’t especially not getting my own way but understand everything is not just about what I want.

You sound a lovely mum who wants to make everything ok . I am a childminder and find with every single child that explanations of why something is or isn’t going to happen they don’t want never help . A firm we will be etc and carry on works far better. Then completely change the subject .

Another thing we do is sing songs, play can you spot..... works as a good distraction . I use it in cold or wet school runs

Firstly, you're doing a great job, and the fact you're worrying about this just reinforces this. Stop beating yourself up.
It's all about boundaries my love, kids crave them. I spent so much time in the supermarket car park explaining exactly what was expected of my DC (one especially struggled with this) and the consequences of not doing what was expected.
'we're not buying a magazine/toy/sweetie today. I want you to walk beside me/sit nicely in the trolley. If you do this, then you'll get a star on your chart, but if you don't we'll have to leave'
And then follow through. Consistency is key with children, they need to know the same action has the same consequences every single time. I know it's hard when you're tired, and you've had to leave 5 shops, and you know there's an easy fix by just giving in. But really, it's not an easy fix, it's just prolonging the issue.
Take heart that you're doing well, and you've had a lot of shit to deal with. Enjoy the sticky kisses and snuggles, and be sure to praise praise praise for the behaviours you like. Excited voice, effusive praise, making a huge deal of earning stars for a reward chart if he has one.
'yay! Well done sweetheart, mummy is so proud of you!! What a great job! Can you stick on your own star? And how many is that now, can you count them? Wow! Nearly 5! You're nearly there for your treat this week!'
I had to call in my HV to help with one of my DC's behaviour when he was about 18m, she went through the positive parenting programme at home with me. It worked a treat, and he's now a (well mannered, helpful, cheerful) teen, who behaves well - it's not too late, and you're doing great. A few tough weeks will give you years of results.

You're not a shit mum at all.

Small suggestions for talking him down from the big treats!

• Weekly pocket money (£1) that he can spend on what he wants, as it'll give him a sense of cost eventually
• Default purchase of a toy/toys from any charity shop you visit (I.e the tiny 3 for £1 ones) - max spend for you £2
• A star chart for hosp appointments/behaviour in general, that adds up to some sort of non-purchasable treat (favourite dinner/park maybe)?

My two had none of the medical issues you've had and still try to mither me for stuff - it happens. Be consistent and it will eventually stop. Don't give in if he keeps going on because then all he learns is that if he persists, he'll win.

Tantrums are about the child trying to gain power. You have to make it clear that you are in charge and stick to what you have said. I used to say things like 'a mummy’s job is keep you healthy and that means no sweets. I wouldn’t be a good mummy if I let you have them'.

My DD used to throw herself on the floor screaming and kicking. If I tried to touch her it made it worse. So I would stand and wait for her to kick herself out, 'are you ok now?' kiss quick cuddle, move on.

Everyone's seen it before, don't worry! He will up the ante. And? Just stay calm and wait it out or walk away.

Well done for admitting this, and well done for wanting to change!

This is so important (thwarting I want therefore I shall have) desires. When our marriage collapsed the therapist told him quite directly: this is not about your wife and this is not about your marriage. This is about your mother, and the way you think. You have never really had any discipline and so you are unable to think about what other people want or feel. [funny, he didn't want to continue counselling after that].

So carry on OP and raise your little man well. You don't have to compensate any more, real life starts from now!

Let him have the tantrum and ignore it, he won't be the first child to have a tantrum in the middle of the street/ shop. The main thing is that you have to stay strong and NOT give in!
If he hits you turn your back on him and ignore him - speak to him about his behaviour when he is calm.
We are all guilty of over indulging our children from time to time!!

Get in early tell him before you go to the shop that you wont be able to buy any treats and tell him the consequences if he throws a tanty, ie, you will not be able to take him next time you go to that shop (if that is possible for you)and he will have to stay home instead or if you are with your DP then make a plan that one of you will leave the shop with your child and sit out the front/in the car etc so that he knows that in no uncertain terms will chucking a tanty get him what he wants anyway. Once he has calmed down outside I would also try to take him back in after going over your expectations again with him if you are both there.

Also when he does behave, praise him with a 'thank you so much for behaving how I asked you, it made our shopping trip so lovely' etc.