Need advice and a handhold. My child called ' simple'.

[wildbhoysmama]

More of a WWYD. I'm really upset right now as my poor little boy is vulnerable and I can't bear for him to be bullied.

I've never, ever had words in my whole life with any neighbour but there's been heated words and I'm not sure what to do.

My DS is 7 and has ADHD and autistic traits ( as well as being severely epileptic, so he copes with a lot) but is a fun, funny, kind and positive little guy. He is emotionally and socially around age 5, but in mainstream and we've been told he's very sharp and performing excellently at school ( he loves school, it is a very caring environment for him.). Life is not always easy but we're a v close family ( 2 older DS and close wider family) and me and DH work hard to make sure he's understood and we have a v happy home life.

We live in a lovely neighbourhood with a mix of families and older people, most of whom have been here many years and whilst noone lives in each other's pockets we're all supportive and everyone is pleasant. All the kids play out, including our DS and he has some lovely, wee friends. Unfortunately one child is problematic: they moved in about 3 years ago ( their house backs onto ours) and whilst I don't know them we pass the time of day. Their DD is 10 and just horrible to our DS. She belittles him, manipulates him and, I think, uses him to make herself look good in front of others. She constantly calls in for him and despite being told politely he's not available she continues to call for him sometimes 2/3 times a day (it maybe to do with our trampoline/ climbing wall etc).

We had a horrendous summer last year trying to get DS to understand that they shouldn't speak as they just don't get on. He was the butt of her jokes and she manipulated the others to run away from him etc. It ended up she threw stones at him and smashed our car window the parents were apologetic and paid for the repair.

The last, few weeks with the weather being better she has started calling again. We say not to call again but she keeps doing so. Tonight things came to a head. Pur DS was on his swing and she was whispering insults to him through our high hedge. Our NDN heard it all as she called him 'simple'. Our DS then asked my DH what it meant.

I went round to her door (.never had to before) to Express my upset. Her mother said ' I'll have a word' but very casually as if it was no big deal. When I said it was quite a big deal she got very angry, saying that we had to keep our son away from her DD too. I pointed out that he is not the issue and with his ASN her dd needs to know that he's vulnerable. She exploded- walking up to my face and asking me to leave her garden.
I said it was very ' adult ' and left.

Her dd was adopted 4 years ago and I don't know whether this makes her mother very over-protective, but she must know how awful her dds behaviour is. Both my NDNs call the dd 'vile'- not nice for a child but I hate to say I agree.

I don't know what to do? I can't keep him from playing out. What do I do if this victimisation continues? Do I have grounds to have a chat with social services or is that just way OTT.

Sorry it's long, thanks for listening in advance.

Nite nite OP. I'm not going to make any other points as don't want to be part of any bun fighting. You sound absolutely lovely and very caring so just trust your judgement. You are not being cruel at all.

Dieu another pp said this (sorry don't rem who) and that's exactly what I thought at first, it's a very old-fashioned word and not one I thought a child would know. Where has she heard it? Perhaps an older relative? If it's the parents I'll be livid, but I have no way of knowing.

mysecond sorry it was you who raised the point about different parenting for attachment issues, thanks.

LadyMacbeth I can assure you I was
"tempered " I'm not in the business of flying off the handle or not listening, shame the mother wasn't in the position to offer me the same respect (I recognise she may be stressed, but I was not the one with the aggression).

moon we can't move the swing, it's built into a frame made of seriously heavy sleepers and logs. He loves his swing and plays on it a lot- very helpful for his adhd.

plattercake nite, nite. Thanks for your support, it means a lot. I think I'll just be avoiding the mother right now, things are little raw right now. I don't see her much at all ( right around.the other street and the gardens are long, we just happen to back onto each other).

I'm going to sleep on it all and just have last, few great days off with DS. The weather is set to continue to be gorgeous and we'll get out and about away from it all. The kids go back to school on Mon here anyway, so should be less chance for problems.

Thank you all for being honest, it's a hear help.

• great help. And thanks for the I needed those tonight.

I’m saddened at some of the comments on here but not surprised having been a victim of bullying, the concern was always for the bully, “she must be suffering in some way, we don’t know how, but must be..” and therefore the bully was always more fascinating and sympathised with, even when I was obviously having a shit time in more ways than one and no one was bothered. Does being adopted give you a free pass to bully? Or maybe being bullied does? Why is it only the victims of bullying that are told to be “kind”?

I’d get a super soaker for when she peers through the hedge. If she was whispering nasty things at my child I’d have no hesitation in letting her have it.

“Oops! Sorry Nastygirl! Didn’t see you there....”

Given the girl has form for throwing stones and has vandalised two cars this way, I'm really surprised by some of the responses chastising the OP for not taking the girl being adopted into account.

Regardless of her adoptive state, she's now the age of criminal responsibility and has form for throwing things and destroying property. Never mind the OP's son, the girl should arguably getting much more supervision when she's playing out as she's demonstrated that she can lose it and cause damage and that she can be verbally abusive. It's very likely she needs more help and support than she's getting.

I suspect the mother's anger with you OPS was basically disguised embarrassment and shame.

He is emotionally and socially 5!! He Should not be 'playing out' and certainly not with 10 year olds- that's begging for trouble!!

Dana28, why should a 7 year old child not be playing out merely because a 10 year old has decided to victimise him? Whatever the older child's history, she is the one calling for OP's son, throwing stones at him, mocking him etc; why does he have to be punished for that by foregoing play with his other friends?

dana28 most kids growing up played outside with each other regardless of age. they looked out for one another. besides this is in his own garden. what exactly is wrong with that?

Also dana at the time that the bully child called him “simple”, he was in his own garden on his own swing.

I think that whole situation is very complex, but as pp have said, each parent’s first priority had to be the protection of their own child. I have had direct neighbours with an adopted child with additional needs, and they were the most vile bunch of people you could ever meet. The child was eventually taken away from them, too. Whole situation was absolutely tragic, as if that child hadn’t been through enough! At that time we didn’t have children, but it would have been very similar to your situation OP, I’m very sure of that. Who knows how the parents got through the adoption process only to end up not only ineffective, but neglectful.

I’m all for having a wider understanding, my son has SEN, I work with children with SEN, and we have family experience of adoption. It’s very possible that the child is going through some very difficult emotions and will be carrying trauma. It is also very possible that her parents are irresponsible and/or not truly equipped or motivated to manage her level of need. We, and even the OP, can’t really know any of this for sure. OP has to manage the situation without assuming that her child’s bully is the victim, and without having more sympathy for the other kid’s mum than she has for her own child.

Speaking from bitter experience, there are certain words that have been said to my child that send me into a blind rage. Simple would be on the list but haven’t heard it used in years and years. I would address the child directly from here on out and say things like “please do not speak to my son or go near him as you have been very unkind” or “son is not coming out to play with you as you are horrible to him”. She will go back to her parents and repeat and you can let them do their side of parenting. You can’t protect that girl from the consequences of her actions.

I find it odd that the girl keeps coming to the door when she's been told not to. And she has vandalised cars in the past?! That could be an excuse to contact the police if she persists.
If she is seriously traumatised I would not care for this constant need to be with DS when all she wants is to be spiteful. Her DPs should do more to manage her when she is outside. Why don't they? I'd be worried she did something seriously cruel if I was them and keep close tabs at all times.
That would be safeguarding her from herself imv.

Rumbletum yes I was going to suggest turning the hose on her too, if she’s standing on the other side of the hedge shouting abuse at your poor son! And I’d be a lot more assertive about telling her to fuck off and not come back when she calls for your son - she is still young enough to be scared of shouty adults, but she won’t be for much longer. Nip this in the bud now. Whatever problems she may or may not have, they aren’t going to be helped by allowing her to bully a five year old.

I understand your frustration but there’s something about your posts that make me uncomfortable. The child calling your son simple was incredibly rude but what’s your excuse for saying your son looks normal/ NT? Your choice of words are even more indefensible given your supposed heighten sensitivitiy/ empathy. In your professional capacity maybe you can access some support about how to best deal with your situation.

Your son is being bullied and you’ve every right to be angry but you can’t go around policing every relationship your son has. It’s time to up his social skills support.

You have no idea what is going on with the other child because the mother, as is her right, has chosen not to disclose much information.

This is your opportunity to start developing your child’s ability to cope with different people. I found this article helpful & it resonated with me so much - www.everythingiwishiknew.com/family-relationshipsblog/how-to-coach-your-child-through-friendship-issues

Calling the OP's DS 'simple' is only part of the DD's continually bullying. I think it's gone beyond being rude.

'But what’s your excuse for saying your son looks normal/ NT?'

What as that got to do with DD's behaviour?

She’s a wee girl who was in care/had a shitty home life til she was 6. She more than likely has issues.

But you can’t control that. And you can’t control how her parents are parenting her. What you can control is your DS and his and your own reactions. You should probably supervise a bit more and emphasise that if she comes he needs to tell an adult. And just keep refusing to let her come in.

Unfortunately, your son is likely to come across bullying (and being taken advantage of) as he navigates life and he will need help and support from you and wider family and friends to develop the skills to deal with this

Op, I understand why you are protective of your son. But this little girl was adopted at the age of six, no child walks away from that unscathed, so she also has complex additional needs. And you call her vile. Not her behaviour. Her.

You complain about her calling your son names, and you as an adult, one with children in your care, demonstrate the exact same behaviour that you attack her for.

Of course her behaviour is not ok, but I think we can all assume her parents are good people. Very good people. Who have taken on a mammoth and difficult task. Voluntarily. To raise this child.

So yes try to keep your son away, continue to tell the girl your son isn't available, but do try to keep in thr back of your mind, this little girl has needs you can't see, and clearly don't understand, and that her adoptive parents, are likely good people doing their best, to help her work through it.

You can be protective of your son, without attacking other children or their parents. She is not vile. She is a little girl who has had a traumatic start in life, living with a relatively new family, in a relatively new environment, and they are all trying to find their way.

Fucking hell the child has been labelled as vile, damaged, she should have the hose turned on her, be told to fuck off, be shouted at (because she’s young enough still to be scared by shouty adults). Yep, all of that isn’t at all going to reinforce her early trauma (which absolutely will be an issue if she’s adopted) and will bring her behaviour into line. My DD was 6 when we adopted her - I appreciate the insight into the views people hold of her and children like her.

The OPs son is vulnerable and lives in close proximity to another child with vulnerabilities which impact her behaviour, both children need support and yes if the OP is so keen for her child to have no contact with another child who lives through the fence from her, part of that will involve supervising her child in the garden, and part of that may involve helping her child ignore people who say unkind things. The other child’s mum will have her own battles to face in supporting her child’s behaviour in the face of trauma, shame and developmental issues. The OP can’t control any of that, and it’s likeky to be a very slow process for the other mother and child.

OP, you say you’re aware of ACEs, and attachment issues however if that was actually the case you’d see that this girls behaviour is wholly explained by her early experiences, you’d understand that children who experience early trauma need a very different approach to behaviour management (which fully explains her mum staying calm and casual - a key factor in therapeutic parenting) and would not label such a child as being vile. I’m not saying excuse or ignore the impact of her behaviour on your child, but terms like ACEs, attachment difficulty, developmental trauma are more than catch phrases to kick around - they explain some of the most challenging, life changing, horrific experiences children have gone through, which leave their mark on body, mind and soul and which leave children with little understanding of or control over their own behaviour. What you’re seeing is the impact of 60% of this child’s time on earth being characterised by uncertainty, broken relationships and trauma. Her mum will be trying to teach her things like empathy, emotional regulation, stability in relationships, rupture and repair, self worth - things that are inately learned from infancy but this child is 6 years behind in. And the 10 year old is trying to learn all of this too, while also trying to behave in a way that makes no sense to her and trying to perform at school and make and keep social relationships.

Yes, let’s turn the hose on her.

if he talks about kindness a lot.maybe just say some people n matter how kind you are haven't quite learn how to be as kind yet.but that this doesn't make him bad it means they need more time and help with that.but in the mean time we don't need to play with those people or let them be nasty to us.

So much sympathy for the wrong person here. The OP was writing about her son who is being treated very cruelly by an older girl. Her behaviour is totally unacceptable, no matter what the cause.

If she is allowed to get away with this she can only get worse. OP, keep her away from your DS. If she abuses him from behind the hedge go and tell her parents straight away, they have to deal with this. Her behaviour is vile, it doesn't mean she is vile.

Her behaviour is totally unacceptable, no matter what the cause.

I’ve not seen anyone say her behaviour is acceptable, I’ve seen people try to explain why it’s not just as simple as telling the girl to stop and her know how to do that. I’ve seen people try to explain that the other mum staying calm and casual is the right approach to parenting an adopted child and doesn’t mean she’s not taking it seriously. And I’ve seen people, myself included, try to defend a child being spoken about in arguably worse terms by adults who claim to know better. But no one has said her behaviour is ok.

Bisset, language about the girl's mother being "allowed" time when she isn't supervising her is not helpful.

I didn’t mean for it to be helpful . Simply factual.

so much victim blaming here

Your first responsibility is to your son. Let the other mother deal with her daughter, that’s not your concern.

Put a big fuck off fence in front of the hedge and see how she likes whispering through that. You shouldn’t have to worry about your son in his own garden.