AIBU or is this OTT? 5yo's Ballet show

[Emergencyblueberries]

DD is 5yo and does a weekly 30 minute ballet class. All the children in her group are 4 or 5. It mostly seems to involve skipping and running around in a circle waving a fairy wand but they all seem to enjoy it. At last weeks lesson their teacher told them they were going to do a show and that all their mummies and daddies would be able to watch. No further details given but we were told we'd get an email. The children were all very excited.

Yesterday we received a very lengthy email informing us that the dance school are putting on a show this summer at a local theatre, there will be a matinee and an evening performance on the same day. It was emphasised that all children must perform in both shows. It's on a Sunday, in term time, each performance is 2.5 hours long but they have to be at the theatre in costume and make up an hour before it starts. The evening performance doesn't finish until 9pm! DD is usually fast asleep by 7pm.

It went on to say there will be a dress rehearsal on the Friday before the show for which the children are expected to miss half a day of school and a parent must be present to chaperone them. No acknowledgement that some parents have jobs and might therefore be unable pick their DC up from school at midday, drive them to the theatre and hang around for hours on a working day. The Sunday before that there is a 4.5 hour rehearsal which finishes at 6.30pm.

It also said "each one of you is expected to volunteer to help backstage for at least one of the performances". In those words. No "please" or "we would appreciate it if you could.."

Tickets to watch the show are £16 each (is that normal for a kids dance show??) and apparently we will be recieving a bill for our child's costume/costumes in due course.

AIBU in thinking that it's completely OTT to expect this level of committment from a bunch of 4 and 5 year olds?? I realise that most of the other dancers will be older, have probably been dancing for years and are taking proper ballet exams etc. so of course for them it's different. But WIBU to tell the dance teacher I don't want DD to be in the show as I feel it's too much pressure and she'll be too tired? I don't want her to feel like she's missing out but she's usually shattered by the end of a normal week at school as it is.

Me and my sister grew up in a strict dance environment with exams, shows, competitions and performing at different events (I did miss school sometimes don’t know what my mum told the school) but I went to quite a serious dance school and this is what your school sounds like, it can also get quite expensive, fees for classes, entry fees, costumes, hair and makeup, tickets and lots more. This is all very normal for a serious school, perhaps you could try finding a school that’s not as serious because as the children get older there will only be more running and costs. I have to add though it did pay off as I’m teaching a variety of styles of dance in a serious studio and my sister is at university studying dance.

As for being expected to help backstage and no please or if, there are always some parents who expect everyone else to do it, but they can't for whatever reason. By making it clear it's an expectation rather than a voluntary thing everyone knows where they stand.

They should make it much more clear what level of commitment is required BEFORE they sign the child up to join the class. The vast majority of parents and kids in this age range want a fun class that will expose their DC to a bit of dance in an enjoyable way and give them a bit of exercise. They don't want to train their child up for a career in dance. They're probably happy for their 5 year old to be in a little show at the end of term which won't require any parental involvement. I imagine if they were honest with the level of commitment required they'd have far fewer children signing up in the first place!

This is a bit extreme. Dd has just had hers. They have rehersal on Saturday and morning and afternoon performances on the sunday. Younger girls are in one show only and tickets are £8.

I used to run a children’s musical theatre school. I also have a daughter who danced first at a local dance school then a full time vocational school and a son who dances at a local dance school.

Some of what you describe us normal eg end of year show at a theatre, tickets between £10-15; paying for costumes being at the theatre an hour beforehand, finish time 10pm (9pm for the babies)

What isn’t normal

Rehearsals on a school day. This will necessitate every single child applying for a child performance licence. My dd did it for professional pants and a couple of professional tours that used local children but never for a dance school show.

Having to chaperone your own child. Best practice is for a licensed chaperones (usually parent volunteers who have registered with the council) to chaperone on a rota basis.

If there are any children under the age of 5 they are only allowed to be at the theatre for a maximum of 5 hours per day (8 hours for 5-8 year olds) and children under 5 can only take part in a show that lasts a maximum of 2 hours unless they leave at the interval.

Dd goes to a dance school that does 2 shows a year. If 2 shows the tinies only do the first one if one it's finished by 7. Under 7s don't have to be at the morning rehearsal only get there for costumes/make up. We pay £20 participation fee and don't pay for our costumes. It's really inclusive. Tickets are £15 but its in a proper theatre. Schools like ours which offer opportunities without it being stupid are out there so it's worth looking.

Dance school owner and mum of two girls (3 & 6) here.

We put on shows every other year, and they are a huge event for the school. We have around 300 students and put on four shows over one weekend, with a Sunday dress rehearsal a month or so in advance. The smallest dancers (3-6yr olds) are involved in both matinée performances, and can be collected at the interval. On dress rehearsal day, they stay for the first 90mins, practise a few times on stage, and then go, and we run the rest of the show, with a play through of their music for timing. Most of the littlies end up staying to watch the senior dancers in their rehearsals- I have amazing pictures of some of my youngest girls recreating what the senior girls were doing onstage in the auditorium. The senior girls are involved in the little ones classes as helpers, so they absolutely idolise them, and the little ones get so much out of watching them. The show is literally the biggest event in the school calendar, and the parents get as excited as the children do. Ours is next year (dates already given to parents), and the kids are already badgering me to tell them what the theme is.

We do ask parents to help out where possible- the show simply would not be able to go ahead without the help. We do ask for parents that are DBS checked or have their chaperone licenses, though it's not strictly true to say everyone backstage HAS to have one, depending on your local authority, though it is regarded as best practise.

The school time rehearsal is certainly unusual, but the school may be struggling to book theatre time without this, and may be trying to mitigate a late start time, after everyone has been collected from school, made it to the theatre and got ready, causing an even later finish?

My eldest has done two big shows and several smaller ones, and loves every minute, and it has done wonders for her confidence. The backstage atmosphere is brilliant- they literally spend the time playing with their friends, watching dvds, colouring, and getting to wear pretty costumes and nice hair.

Dance teachers literally put their heart and soul into shows- we make no profit from our show, as it goes to charity. We all go unpaid for the weekend, and usually end up at the theatre for 13hrs or more both days. No one gets paid, it is literally for the love of giving your children an amazing experience. Yes it's a big commitment, yes there is expense, yes it can seem OTT when your child is in a small section of the show. But that feeling of watching your little person on that stage is unrivalled. And whilst you might not think you will be interested in watching other people's children, to see where your child can end up, through persuing a hobby that is healthy, instills excellent discipline, exposes them to the arts is inspiring.

Dont write it off without seeing what your daughter wants to do- nearly my whole school chooses to be involved in our shows, and to be the one child that wasn't would be awful.

There is a fair bit of negativity towards dance teachers on this thread, which is unjust- we are generally very hardworking people, that invested tens of thousands of pounds into sharing our passion, and are spending hours and hours of our free time choosing and editing music, designing our sourcing costumes and creating choreography for your child's two minutes in the spotlight. We work unsociable hours earn virtually nothing, and never get any thanks. But we do it because we love it, and love your kids too. ☺️

It's a shame because she does like the weekly classes but if this arrangement is considered "standard" even for such young children and it's "only going to get worse" as many posters are saying then I think I'm going to have to steer her away from ballet and towards something else. I'm simply not prepared to put her under so much pressure at such a young age or for her to miss school. Nor are DH or I able to drop everything and take time off work because the dance school demand it. So if this is the level of commitment that's "expected" from us simply because DD quite enjoys putting on a tutu and spinning for 30 minutes a week then I'm afraid it's not sustainable. We will just have to find something else that she enjoys.

Sounds normal from what I remember of my DDs ballet and maiden dance lessons. Shows were every other year and though a bit of pain for working parents, the girls loved every minute and learnt alot about team work and responsibility.

NicNax and other dance teachers on the thread, that’s such a shame if you never get any thanks. I hope my DDs’ dance teachers know that they are appreciated. The shows are amazing for all the reasons you stated.

I think you need to do a trial at a couple of other dance schools.

Last year my dh was taken seriously ill and despite having been a licensed chaperone for many years there was no way I could help out at all at ds’s dance shows.

There are many dance schools that do their shows with no school needing to be missed and where the littlies can leave in the interval.

As I work for a council and also had children involved in dance and drama I am appalled at the lack of safeguarding. Chaperones should be licensed or have a DBS.

I was in a similar situation to you, where as a single parent I couldn't manage the expectations of picking up and dropping off between shows ( theatre 30 minutes away, so no time to go home between and return, expectation was that I stayed near to the theatre and waited) I had a second child to think about too. I can remember needing to be in two places at once and the dance leader being incredibly unhelpful, making me feel so bad for not being able to commit. It became impossible.

Normal for a decent dance/performing arts school.

I was a dancer as a child and dd is one now. This is par for the course.

Some activities are all about having fun and it doesn’t matter too much if kids show up to things or not. Ballet (a decent school anyway) is not really like that!

There is a fair bit of negativity towards dance teachers on this thread, which is unjust- we are generally very hardworking people, that invested tens of thousands of pounds into sharing our passion, and are spending hours and hours of our free time choosing and editing music, designing our sourcing costumes and creating choreography for your child's two minutes in the spotlight. We work unsociable hours earn virtually nothing, and never get any thanks. But we do it because we love it, and love your kids too. ☺️

This thread wasn't intended to be a criticism of dance teachers in general. I'm sure there are plenty of good dance teachers out there and plenty who aren't so good, just like in any other job. But even if they are all wonderful, selfless people who work for practically nothing, that doesn't change the fact that the level of commitment this particular dance school is demanding for this particular show is too much for many Reception age children and the assumption that parents will prioritise the show over their own work commitments is not fair or realistic.

I make sure my DD says thank you to her dance teacher at the end of every lesson by the way, it's just basic manners as far as I'm concerned. That's really awful that you never receive any thanks from parents/students.

Some activities are all about having fun and it doesn’t matter too much if kids show up to things or not. Ballet (a decent school anyway) is not really like that!

That's a shame - only a tiny minority of kids who pick up ballet are doing for anything except for fun and exercise/health. It's madness if there aren't ballet schools which cater for the majority of kids who (especially at five years old) want a hobby and not something which will dominate theirs and their parent's life!

There is a fair bit of negativity towards dance teachers on this thread, which is unjust- we are generally very hardworking people, that invested tens of thousands of pounds into sharing our passion, and are spending hours and hours of our free time choosing and editing music, designing our sourcing costumes and creating choreography for your child's two minutes in the spotlight. We work unsociable hours earn virtually nothing, and never get any thanks. But we do it because we love it, and love your kids too.

I didn't read this as being critical of dance teachers - just critical of the crazy idea that dance has to be an all or nothing hobby. At five years old the kids just want a fun, healthy hobby and to learn a bit of basic technique. There really is no need for the level of time and financial commitment that many posters claim is "normal" for dance. I think most parents would prefer it if the shows were much more low key (which would require less effort from the teachers too!).

Rehearsals on a school day. This will necessitate every single child applying for a child performance licence.

There was no mention of this in the email. Is this just a case of filling in a form or is it more complicated? I'm guessing there's also a cost involved.

My dds have done shows like this since they were about 3. They not long had one that was over 4 days with two shows a day on the Saturday and Sunday. Having a late night on a school night isn't the end of the world as a one off and the dance show memeroies are amazing for them. My girls love doing them and it's great to look back at the dvds and see how they've progressed over the years.

What doesn't sit right with me though, is having time off school to rehearse. Our dress rehearsals have always been the Sunday before, granted they're all day, but the younger children come in shifts, so don't usually have to be there the whole time. In the 10 years they've been doing shows they've never had to miss school. The only time they're missed any school for dance is for exams. It seems pretty strange that that's how they've done it.

My children have been dancing for 7 years now and my dd has been in 3 shows with her 4th coming up this summer. Her first was when she was 5.
She has loved every moment! I remember being in tears watching her all those years ago. She was so excited and I was so proud that she could go on stage and be so confident in front of all those people. My ds also did one show (aged 6). He lapped up the attention, waving to the crowd. They have gained so much from it that the time and money were worth it.
This year my dd, now 10, is in 7 dances and practices every day. It will cost us over £250 including entry, costumes, tickets and dvd but is worth it. It will be a weekend to remember.

However the one thing that gets me is missing school. In all the years of dance, singing and theatre (including 7 exams) she has never missed school. That isn’t acceptable.

£250?!?!?!

To be clear, I would never ask children to take time out of school for a show rehearsal. Exams, yes, as these a regulated by a professional body, and can earn UCAS points at a higher level. Most schools will authorise these as an extra curricular activity. I've not heard of any schools near me using school time for rehearsals, I was just surmisomg that there may be a deeper reason for this.

A previous poster mentioned performance licenses - this is certainly the case in some local authorities, but not necessarily all, as they, completely bafflingly, have very different requirements when it comes to children performing. The same applies to chaperones licenses- in my local authority, you are not required to have all persons backstage DBS cleared, or with a chaperones license, as long as some do, and you can produce a child protection olicy of requested. Not something I agree with, by the way.

I may be oversensitive, as I've read similar threads on here before, and have felt, perhaps incorrectly, that we are regarded as out of touch, and unrealistic in our expectations. But a huge number of us are parents ourselves, so do understand what it's like to keep all of the balls in the air. We honestly do want your child to have an amazing experience. It's not in our interest to make it difficult for people, as people just wouldn't return, and we would ultimately lose customers.

My dance mums are fantastic, by the way--they literally keep backstage running, and do an amazing job keeping the children happy (I left my 5yr old with the chaperones last year, and she was as happy as anything). I couldn't be more grateful for what they do, as, due to ratios, we literally couldn't run the show without them.

No, there is no charge for a performance licence. Basically as long as no school is missedchildren are allowed to perform for up to 4 days every 6 months. However if school needs to be missed a licence needs to be applied for. The dance school fills in Part A & the parent Part B, plus permission from school needs to be sought.

Now legally a school can’t refuse permission without sound educational reasons (such as a child in Year 6 or 11 being too close to public exams) but that part is a hassle for a dance school with a lot of kids. The local authority will take the views of the school into account but it is they who grant the licence and have the final say.

Oh god I did these awful shows as young kid and hated it. I found them tiring and overwhelming. My mum had grown up loving dance and signed me up I kind of willingly went along with it as I was a people pleaser but remember hating all the fuss and the emphasis on how important it was and all the sitting around waiting. I didn't have the courage to quite until I was 8 and my mum was horrified as she thought I'd always loved performing!

I much preferred school plays where there were a few practises and we just went on stage in the school hall. I'm sure some of the older kids really love doing it but it's really not necessary for little five year olds! Just let them get up on a little stage and twirl around for a bit!

Is it a ballet group beginning with S by any chance?

I think the issue is unique to purely dance schools. Dd has been with a few over the years and they seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to shows.

You can’t have another child, or any other activities or commitments that don’t revolve around that particular dance school. You also have to have unlimited funds to pay for the costumes and you also have to be a trained hairdresser to get your child’s hair in a certain bun.

Only time I have pulled the plug on Dd doing a show was after we had been stung for nearly £200 for a Christmas show (it wasn’t asked for in one go it was asked for in £30 here and £20 there till it added up.)
No sooner had we had one show when another was on the horizon.

Dd had an activity on Saturday mornings that meant we had to leave the house by 8am to get to it.
The owner of the dance school told us that Dd and her class would need to come in on Saturday mornings for extra lessons (be there for 3 hours at a discounted sum of £7 per hour) for the show rehearsals.

I told the teacher we couldn’t do Saturday mornings.

Before I had chance to explain why she said it would do me good to get out of bed on a Saturday.
I pulled Dd from the show and spent the last term she was there listening to the other mums complain about the money that this show was costing.

School was closed down a couple of years later.

@NicNax38 we’ve just had our annual dance show and there’s a lot of love for the teachers and school, from parents and dancers. I’ve come to it completely cold so it’s been an education, but DD loves it and you are so right in what you say. Especially about the younger dancers watching the seniors. It inspires them. DD2 has now signed up for more lessons on the back of it.

I think what you and other dance teachers do is underrated, but the benefits for our children are enormous. 😊