To feel like this re mourning dead family member.

[Feelawful1]

I have nc for this because I know I'll get flamed.

DP lost a close family member, about twenty years ago. It was very sudden. They (DP and the rest of the immediate family) have understandably never quite got over it,and I think they feel a lot of misplaced guilt over this person's death.

My issue is this. Every event - and I mean every event - has to make some mention of this relative and their absence. I don't just mean a "thinking of those who are missed today" reference, for example DP ended up very upset at our child's christening because a sibling started the usual conversation "ah, X will never see the baby, do you remember when..." which is still OK, reminiscing and all, but then this leads on to "I'll always wonder if we could have done anything differently, if only X had gone to the doctor that Thursday, I lie awake thinking how they must have suffered...." and then this obviously upsets DP.

Every year around the anniversary of the death, DP becomes morose and takes the day off work to have some quiet time to think about X. Ditto birthdays. Christmas usually has DP or another member of his family needing extra support as "they are finding it hard without X this year" this involves the family rallying around to the house of the upset one, which is lovely and supportive but it has often been at the expense of other things - I sat on my own with a newborn one Christmas Eve as the family had an emotional hours long discussion in the next room after BIL arrived at the door "needing to talk"

Recently an important event happened in my own life, something that had been years in the making and which was a big thing for me. DP was very quiet over this period of time and when I asked what was wrong, it was to do with thoughts about X. So then I felt I couldn't be happy or pleased, at least not showy about it

The children in the family are told stories about X, which again is lovely only again it sometimes seems to go that little bit far- being encouraged to kiss a photo of X at bedtime every night for example, and lots of attention is paid when a child of the family has a dream about X- this happens quite a bit. None of them ever met this relative. I have discouraged this in my own children as it makes me feel really uncomfortable. There are always comments about how a child looks like X, and when this is said there is a hush, dabbing of eyes etc. Every child in the family looks like X by this point.

I know I'm being horrible and people grieve differently, but sometimes I just want to have a nice time and celebrate family events without everyone ending up in tears over X. It's not like I haven't experienced loss in my own life, but my family don't behave like this so I'm not used to it.

There is another event coming up soon, which I'm very much looking forward to, and I just feel tired at the thought of it being dominated by this again - they are a big, close family, so there really is something every few months, if not more frequently, and it always means DP being more quiet and withdrawn for a few days before and/or afterwords.

I know how all this makes me sound, but honestly sometimes it makes me feel steeped in death and grief. There's so much talk of angels in heaven and meeting again that I feel like death is always just round the corner, or waiting in the wings even when celebrating a birth/marriage etc. I have developed quite bad health anxiety over a health scare I had a few years ago, so I'm not sure if that's why I'm finding it harder to handle. Then of course the more I feel fed up and uncomfortable with it all the more I think what a nasty person I must be

That's really terrible that they're fostering this sort of behaviour in the children. What kind of life will they have! I imagine they really relish the wallowing.

The more you write, OP, the more it sounds like my dp's family! One of their aunts believe s that her son is her dad reincarnated! Imagine putting that idea in an eight year olds head! Plus they're nothing alike, dad liked to pick fights, kid gets bullied at school and is a very sensitive child. Once he asked his mum at the start of a family party 'can you not get drunk and cry tonight mummy?'

maybe if they were to believe they they were holding back X's spirit from moving on, they could have a lovely ceremony hosted by a celebrant with the intention of letting the dead person go and move on in the afterlife. Part of the ceremony could make sure to mention that this can only happen if they themselves stop maudlin and wailing

I think this is a brilliant idea but this family have to want to move on and I honestly think they don't. The strong character is holding the family members to ransom, it's like 'either you mourn like us or you're not close family, you're minor league'. I bet you you're not the only one who feels uncomfortable with all of this but they daren't show it. This communal mourning is what holds them together, I bet you if this was sorted, they would not be anywhere near so close as they make out they are.

I wondered if there was one dominant character stirring the pot. Control, in other words. Sounds from what OP says that there is.
It's a learned behaviour and they're all going along with it as the script is easy and they all know their roles.

Some very plain speaking with the pot stirrer is probably what's needed. Easier said than done and it'd need to be someone neutral.

You're a saint for putting up with this ridiculous pantomime,OP, and your DP needs a kick up the backside about it.

I've definitely had a light bulb moment at all the comments suggesting that this is the only way they have of connecting to each other/expressing their emotions. They are the sort of family who always go on about how close they are, but they never actually do much together beyond sitting around each other's houses. They wouldn't say "let's all take the kids to the museum and get a coffee afterwards", it's all adults sitting round having adult discussions about people they know, within earshot of the children. They have all suffered from and been medicated for depression, some will be on tablets for life I imagine. There is a lot of secrecy and "we don't talk about that" about other things in the family - for instance, BIL and his wife separated for about a month some years ago, but I couldn't tell you why- and it's none of my business so why should I - but DP doesn't know either, not a clue, which I think is strange for brothers who are "close"

Are we married into the same family OP?

l lost my dad 22 (nearly 23) years ago. l was very close to him, and l still miss him after all these years.
Just daft things like something on tv that l think he would have liked, and l'll sit on the floor with my house rabbits, making a fuss of them, and saying "oh, my daddy would have loved you!" - we were both animal lovers, l get that from him, and he would. He'd have been sat on the floor, playing with them like l do.
And of course, Christmas and birthdays throw up memories. But after 20 years, they should be tempered with the passing of time into happy remembrances with a tinge of sadness for the loss of the person.
l don't wish to be rude, but this 'obsession' with this person is unhealthy. Have they had counselling to deal with it?

My in laws are like this, constantly wailing. They have a memorial type thing in their front room but it's dedicated to ALL dead relatives, even ones they've never met like great great grandparents.

My mil signed up to an ancestry site so she could find even more distant dead relatives to grieve over. I don't see them anymore because it's disturbing.

Yep, this is abnormal. It’s also, if you’ll forgive me, quite self-absorbed. I mean, really, your DH ruined your big achievement by deciding that was a good time to wallow in his twenty year old grief. That’s pretty selfish IMHO.

I totally agree, and think this is what makes it so toxic and manipulative. Because do you think it was an “excuse” for DH? Was it really just a coincidence that your achievement and his upsurge in grief happened at the same time, or was “grief” a convenient excuse to check out and not praise you or otherwise participate in whatever this event was?

Also agree that the children have learned that dream and thoughts of X are a great way to get attention. These children are being taught the same manipulative tactics that their parents use. But the saddest thing is, these children have been brainwashed. They cannot truly love and grieve for a person they never met.

Life is for living, not for mourning the dead...!!!!

That’s incredibly bizarre and unhealthy. Christ, I feel a bit weird and guilty sometimes mentioning my eight years dead mum when it’s relevant to the discussion as I feel like people might think it’s been long enough I shouldn’t mention it anymore!

I wonder if any of them are actually actively grieving still or it’s all become a bit of an emperors new clothes thing? Like performing grief, in an echo chamber with others, nobody can move on for fear of seeming over it when in reality everyone is probably ‘over it’ to an appropriate amount... what do you think? It’s like yeah, they’re all performing grief wellllllll beyond a natural and healthy period of time.

Don’t blame you for being sick of it and I can promise you even as someone who lose a mum in my early twenties to tragic circumstances, this isn’t normal. Nope.

Is your DH even self aware enough to see its abnormal or is he totally enmeshed?

I’m thinking of possible tactics.

You can’t stop them doing it but you should be able to have some say over doing it while trying to involve you. How would you feel about taking the approach where when they start trying to talk about it with you you reply with some kind of ‘i know you still miss X, but I’d prefer not to talk about her today as it brings my mood down/reminds me of my own losses’ and change the subject? Any normal person would understand that.

If your DH was on board I’d be encouraging him to adopt a different approach of when she’s mentioned, saying something like ‘we’ll always miss her and I know she’d want us to keep living our lives without looking back all the time’ with a smile and then changing the subject? Like nip it in the bud as soon as it comes up.

Tbh though you’re just one woman and you might have to take the decision of sitting some of these gatherings out. Just don’t go, don’t spend as much time with them, they may wanna do this but you don’t have to be a part of it. And next time someone hijacks your exciting news or achievement to go on about this again be direct ‘I’m sure you don’t mean to come across this way but it actually feels a bit upsetting/rude when I’m sharing something positive with you I’m proud of and you find a way to relate it to X’s death’. Don’t be afraid of their response, they’re bat shit crazy. Your goal isn’t for them to happily accept it, it’s just to get them to stop and to show you a bit of tact or respect even if you have to ask for it.

Agree with PP's about a memorial service to let 'the spirit' go for the 20th anniversary. If they are religious maybe the vicar could help to put a positive spin on life is for living and people moving on with their lives?

Or a fundraiser such as joining a fun run in the deceased name to raise money for a cause that was close to their heart? Kind of acknowledging their death, but redirecting the grief in a more positive way?

Oh wow OP! The Catholic side of my family is like this! Barely a month passes without a memorial 'get together' of some sort!
The wedding anniversaries, births and deaths of many many relatives (parents, cousins, aunts, uncles, great aunts, great uncles, great grandparents, grandparents) who have passed away are all marked and remembered.

It could be worse op, my mil has regular birthday parties for her dead relatives. Each year she becomes distraught that distant relatives in Australia "can't be bothered to come".

Agree very unhealthy and pretty selfish and weak of your DP to allow himself to act like this. I would have been furious if my DH had ruined something special for me in that way. My DF died 23 years ago when I was a teen. Yes, it was sad at my wedding (where he was of course mentioned) and I felt it when I had my DS as he has no Papa on my side and I miss him at birthdays and Christmas My mum will often say DS looks like my dad which is lovely, but we certainly don't talk about him all the time or wallow.

Crikey, I would have snapped a long time ago. It's not grief, it's collective self indulgence. Time for some firm words at home. Your DH needs to get a grip.

My mil passed 19 years ago and I knew her and actually lived with her for a few years before she died.
She was a beautiful person inside and out and I miss her,esp as I dont have a relationship with my parents.
My husband didn't celebrate her birthday which is on valentine's day, or mothers day for me for years.
It got to the point when I had to say to him that it wasnt fair on me or the children.
His mum would not of wanted anyone to stop living and to remeber her without to much sadness.
We talk about her from time to time and have a drink or buy her favourite flowers.
We talk to the children about her and show pictures of happy times.
But it's not in your face and it's good to have memories but not good for those memories to become an obsession and impact all areas of your life.

It's good you have prevented your children being involved in this. The poor cousins, it is just learnt behaviour in them.

I agree with pp who say this is about control, especially if one person is usually the source of this.

I wonder if it was your dh's siblings who died and it's one of his parents who is the instigator of these episodes. Like they're scared of their child being forgotten and obviously see their other children moving through life is constant reminder and prompted of grief.

It is wrong that the siblings can't enjoy their life achievements but again it's learnt behaviour in them that they can't allow themselves to celebrate or revel in achievement as it highlights the fact the deceased isn't able to do the same.

I worry about a situation in my own family where the death of a child had a massive impact. Devasting for everyone but for the sibling they will never escape their or their parents grief and the inevitable comparisons. So complicated, I sympathise with you op xx

Meant add I read a book called The Great Divorce by CS Lewis which helped me understand this in my own family. It may not be to your taste but there was a woman it who couldn't get over the death of her adult child. She was self absorbed to the extent it damaged all her other relationships. It sounds like at least one person in your dh's family is like this.

It's no denying that grief is handled differently by everyone but this sounds like it's moved into dysfunctional territory.

Everyone had dead people.

I'd honestly tell your DH that you are done losing happiness because of X.
That he either goes to get counselling or he STFU. And the next time one of his BSC relatives rocks up to ruin your day they'll be turned away.

I like the idea of a PP upthread who suggests that you have a "dream."
Not long after my dad died, I dreamt that he phoned me, and said that he wasn't coming to a family occasion we had planned, but that he was fine, and we'd be fine without him.
It was hugely comforting.

This is unhealthy. Really unhealthy

Although actually probably the death may well be the defining moment of his life and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Understanding mortality actually allows better decisions because people do things they want to do rather than feel they ought to

Yes it seems very attention seeking from the family at large, and also controlling from your husband too. As previously said absolutely everyone has deceased relatives, often tragically and it diminishes other people’s life experiences (good or bad) to carry on like this. This must be awful for you. Counselling all round (with gin for you!)

It does sound like this is rather self-reinforcing and self-indulgent in DH's family - no one wants to be the first to 'forget' X by not making every event about them. Is there one person who pushes this thing more than others?

I mean, we sometimes mention my dad's late sister, who died young 25 years ago, still at family events but we don't make a massive deal and nobody's bursting into tears at the mention of her name, and ditto we will me mentioning my grandfather, who died at the start of this year, at things for the next couple of years, but DH's family sounds overly dominated by it.