To feel like this re mourning dead family member.

[Feelawful1]

I have nc for this because I know I'll get flamed.

DP lost a close family member, about twenty years ago. It was very sudden. They (DP and the rest of the immediate family) have understandably never quite got over it,and I think they feel a lot of misplaced guilt over this person's death.

My issue is this. Every event - and I mean every event - has to make some mention of this relative and their absence. I don't just mean a "thinking of those who are missed today" reference, for example DP ended up very upset at our child's christening because a sibling started the usual conversation "ah, X will never see the baby, do you remember when..." which is still OK, reminiscing and all, but then this leads on to "I'll always wonder if we could have done anything differently, if only X had gone to the doctor that Thursday, I lie awake thinking how they must have suffered...." and then this obviously upsets DP.

Every year around the anniversary of the death, DP becomes morose and takes the day off work to have some quiet time to think about X. Ditto birthdays. Christmas usually has DP or another member of his family needing extra support as "they are finding it hard without X this year" this involves the family rallying around to the house of the upset one, which is lovely and supportive but it has often been at the expense of other things - I sat on my own with a newborn one Christmas Eve as the family had an emotional hours long discussion in the next room after BIL arrived at the door "needing to talk"

Recently an important event happened in my own life, something that had been years in the making and which was a big thing for me. DP was very quiet over this period of time and when I asked what was wrong, it was to do with thoughts about X. So then I felt I couldn't be happy or pleased, at least not showy about it

The children in the family are told stories about X, which again is lovely only again it sometimes seems to go that little bit far- being encouraged to kiss a photo of X at bedtime every night for example, and lots of attention is paid when a child of the family has a dream about X- this happens quite a bit. None of them ever met this relative. I have discouraged this in my own children as it makes me feel really uncomfortable. There are always comments about how a child looks like X, and when this is said there is a hush, dabbing of eyes etc. Every child in the family looks like X by this point.

I know I'm being horrible and people grieve differently, but sometimes I just want to have a nice time and celebrate family events without everyone ending up in tears over X. It's not like I haven't experienced loss in my own life, but my family don't behave like this so I'm not used to it.

There is another event coming up soon, which I'm very much looking forward to, and I just feel tired at the thought of it being dominated by this again - they are a big, close family, so there really is something every few months, if not more frequently, and it always means DP being more quiet and withdrawn for a few days before and/or afterwords.

I know how all this makes me sound, but honestly sometimes it makes me feel steeped in death and grief. There's so much talk of angels in heaven and meeting again that I feel like death is always just round the corner, or waiting in the wings even when celebrating a birth/marriage etc. I have developed quite bad health anxiety over a health scare I had a few years ago, so I'm not sure if that's why I'm finding it harder to handle. Then of course the more I feel fed up and uncomfortable with it all the more I think what a nasty person I must be

Can I ask if you're a traveller family?

O used to work in a photo place and they were always like this, I have photos photoshopped relatives who died years ago into recent wedding pics, or put them in the sky! Strange.

Either way it sounds odd and I'd discourage it in my kids, they def wouldn't be kissing a pic before bed.

My dad and dw's mum died before the kids were born and it comes up very occasionally

I’m not surprised you’re dreading family events, it sounds quite selfish to me, leaving you on your own with a newborn on Christmas Eve and not being happy about your achievement that has been a long time coming. Could it be that they use their ‘feelings’ to get attention when they feel someone is stealing their limelight?

I’ve lost several members of my family unexpectedly and if they’d been found sooner they probably could have been saved, one was a very young child and it is very upsetting and you never forget - but what you’re describing after 20 years is so far from normal that if it was me I’d be taking myself off to counselling.

Remembering on the anniversary of a death seems normal to me, but the rest seems excessive. Either the fear of being seen to be less caring as has been mentioned, or else is there a need for counselling.

Is it your DH's brother or sister that died at a young age? It sounds like it could be and to be honest I think that we all grieve differently and perhaps the loss of a very close family member is something you never really get over or come to terms with. I agree with someone above who mentioned post traumatic disorder.
It's not helpful or healthy for your children to see the family behave in this way -Perhaps some counselling would help, do you think your DH would agree to that?

YANBU!

This is ridiculous. And this is coming from someone who lost a family member in absolutely tragic circumstances decades ago. We mention funny stories from time to time that involved him, but I'll be frank and say even that gets less because he died over 30 years ago.

It sounds like the door is open for your DH to move on from this if he has agreed that your kids shouldn't have to be subjected to some of this. I would jump on that and get counselling for him so that he can eventually stand up to his family and say something. I would distance your family from the rest.

How mean that your DH clouded your big achievement, TBH I would go batshit crazy that he did that after 20 years. So unfair. You need to tell him.

Grief is a funny thing, there is no time limit on it. However it is also a very personal thing and doesn't need a group cult like movement wallowing in it publicly. AFAIC the tragedy that happened to us... I remember the person that died but it's inside of me privately, I don't feel the need to continually talk about him.

Goodness the part about kissing the picture gave me the heebie jeebies! It's competitive grieving and is so unhealthy. What's your plan now op? You can't live like this

I agree it's competitive grieving, i.e. I can talk about him/her more than you. I'm more upset than you.

It doesn’t sound normal no. I would be most worried about the effect on the children. The kissing of the pictures, the dreams etc all sound like a package of stuff to mess up young minds. It is of course normal to remember family members on anniversaries etc but for your DH to wallow instead of celebrating your success is problematic.

Google complicated grief op. Your in laws probably won't change, and this will make it difficult for your DH to change, as they're so intertwined.

An experienced therapist might help but it won't be easy. First he has to understand that their way of grieving is not healthy.

Good luck

I remember my mother telling me a story about her grandmother who lost her brother in an accident. She could not stop mourning him, until she had a dream that he came to her and told her very angrily to leave him be.

I'd hate to be tied to all of that. They all sound a bit mental and toxic. I'd have bailed long ago.

You could be me... except DH and I talked it through at the time and I alost forced him to deal with the realities of MILs death.

So whilst the rest of his family were sitting round getting drunk and maudlin he was with me, sorting out coroner, funeral, wake, police etc.

20 years on and his siblings are still wallowing in that grief. DH is taken to task, soundly berated for not loving their DM as much as they do* and then the magic sentence "It's alright for you" We don't know what that means, but it is obviously something important to them!

*This is true, in a way. He had an adult relationship with his mum. Could discuss their childhood candidly with her, to explore why she was as she was and how it affected him the eldest child. His sibs never did, they held onto the Perfect Mum Myth long after she gave it all up as a bad period in her life!

The only thing I can suggest OP is that you keep that line of conversation open. Don't let your DP shut you out. Tell him when he is sidelining you or your DC for those maudlin moments.

And yes, maybe discuss some sort of talking therapy! He may not like the idea but the very idea of it might make him reassess some of his actions.

Is your DH from a different culture? Different cultures have very different approaches to death and remembering the dead to outown

If it was sudden it's a terrible shock but they seem to be almost enjoying the wallowing.

I bet it was his mum, I could offer a very horrifying story about losing your mum (not mine) but the people involved in that celebrate her on Mother's Day, and raise a glass at Christmas but that's it.

l had a dream and X helped me with my spelling test

Is this not the children in the family, ( none of whom ever met X ) just learning, that to be the centre of attention, and get everyone dancing attendance on them, they only have to mention X.
Very unhealthy, and just carrying this nonsense on to the next generation .

I don’t apologise for calling it “nonsense “, because their behaviour has nothing to do with grief, and everything to do with competition, “I miss X more than you” .
Look at me, “I’m more upset than you “.

All very weird.
I wouldn’t like to be the person that tried to bring some sense to this group of professional mourners.

OP , you mentioned that when you lived abroad your DP was much better , does this not show that he is frightened to put his head above the parapet. How many of the others feel the same, but are also frightened to say something. Is there one really strong character in the family?

You often find when someone dies they become a “saint” no matter what kind of person they were in life .

I would definitely keep my children out if it though.

It would be interesting if the OP would be willing to come back and answer as to if there's a cultural element going on here or not. That is what struck me as possible/likely when I read the post. Possibly a bit like the believe that they're not really dead if you still speak their name.

It's not healthy, and involving the children like that is very wrong. I'd be wanting to keep my kids away from family gatherings and such, if that's how they behave, it's not fair on the children or the partners, it's not fair on themselves and it's not fair on the dead person, who, if there's an afterlife, must be thoroughly fed up of it all! I smiled at the poster whose grandmother was visited in her sleep by her brother and told to get a grip and stop, that's what I'd do if I were a ghost and could in X's shoes! oh, the things i find myself typing on mumsnet!!

Definitely counselling for him - it sobs like the whole group could use some group counselling but I doubt they would because it might mean admitting you're ready to move on and the family culture appears to be that's not allowed. So it falls to partners like you to point out they it's excessive and not normal, and maybe hopefully people will get their own counselling/shit together and collectively it could quieten down.

Alternatively your child could "have a dream where X tells them to fuck off they're stopping him/her from moving through the portal to the afterlife"

Interesting that a PP asked if we were travellers, we're not, but ages ago I watched one of those gypsy wedding type shows, and this one was about the customs surrounding a death- it did indeed remind me a bit of DP and his family!

I've definitely had a light bulb moment at all the comments suggesting that this is the only way they have of connecting to each other/expressing their emotions. They are the sort of family who always go on about how close they are, but they never actually do much together beyond sitting around each other's houses. They wouldn't say "let's all take the kids to the museum and get a coffee afterwards", it's all adults sitting round having adult discussions about people they know, within earshot of the children. They have all suffered from and been medicated for depression, some will be on tablets for life I imagine. There is a lot of secrecy and "we don't talk about that" about other things in the family - for instance, BIL and his wife separated for about a month some years ago, but I couldn't tell you why- and it's none of my business so why should I - but DP doesn't know either, not a clue, which I think is strange for brothers who are "close".

There definitely is a guilt element, yes. There absolutely shouldn't be, but I know they do feel terribly guilty over the circumstances of X's death.

There definitely is a strange family dynamic which I feel was probably in place to some extent before X's death. I doubt they'll ever change and I couldn't begin to pick through it all, but yes I can't see why I can't at least help DP. I'm going to Google some of the suggestions here. He did have counselling at one point, but didn't find it helpful. I'm not even sure he needs it now, because day to day he's actually very happy- when the cloud of grief comes down it's almost always been triggered by a family member going on about X. DP does however feel guilty if he enjoys himself to the point where he forgets X, and I have told him he shouldn't.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences, I'm so sorry for those of you who have experienced loss. And thank you for not ripping me to bits - I would hate to feel like I was dictating how others grieve, but it's interesting how many of you have had equally tragic deaths in the family but still don't think this is normal after so many years.

I jest above of course yes I'm a terrible person but in all seriousness maybe if they were to believe they they were holding back X's spirit from moving on, they could have a lovely ceremony hosted by a celebrant with the intention of letting the dead person go and move on in the afterlife. Part of the ceremony could make sure to mention that this can only happen if they themselves stop maudlin and wailing.

Ceremony, even if you don't quite believe it, can be very powerful.

Not a cultural element per se- working class white British background. But old fashioned in a lot of ways, due to location, circumstances, and preference.

Poor you. They all sound like a nightmare.

There is one strong character in the family who is the source of a lot of this, however they've never been quite sure what to make of me, as I'm quite different to the other people who have married in, and they can't dominate me. The thing with the children is awful- I have absolutely nipped it in the bud when they've tried it with mine, especially as one of mine shares an interest with X- you can imagine the comments that surrouhded that. The interest is actually directly related to something I do for a living, so it's more likely child has picked that up from me, but my god the atmosphere when I pointed that out one day,and DP spoke up in support. There was a dead silence, and the looks! They've not tried to rope mine in like that again. One of the cousins is a sensitive child and often talks about X in heaven. I can see the way laid clear for that child to continue on the family depression.

Thanks for replying.

I really feel for you, this is just so very toxic. Xxx

Time to ease your dc away from them imo.

Can you talk to any of the other in-laws who have married in to the family to see if they feel the same way as you about this? It may be that you can get together to help them into a more helpful dynamic. If you all agree to divert the conversation when X comes up, point out regularly that X wouldn't want them wallowing like this, say that the children aren't going to be made to kiss photos, and to plan something to distract family members when an anniversary is coming up, it might help.

Wow this is awful, good for you for not letting your kids get dragged into this. They really believe that a nine year old is having dreams about someone they've never met? I'd be encouraging your husband to move far away from these loons.