AIBU to think that Leave voters who complain about a lack of democracy are hypocrites?

[KennDodd]

Because they completely ignore the proven illegalities around the Leave campaign that would have made void the result had the referendum been binding.

I disagree Hereward. No mention was made of it being advisory or merely permission to open negotiations. We were asked if we wanted to stay or go. There's a lot of rewriting history to try and make out the referendum meant something other than what it was.

And no one wants to admit they didn’t know what they were voting for, because quite honestly, why would they want to admit that? Remember this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-eu-is-top-google-search-in-uk-after-brexit-2016-6

The PM who made that promise would be the one who fucked off, then?

why leavers would therefore think it would be acted upon

Some People who voted remain thought this as well

I don't understand your point?

Apologies if youve explained it a bit further down the thread

Sunday Times / Daily Mail : pretty much the same thing. Both right wing sensationalist tabloids.

Worrying that you think reading the Sunday Times makes you enlightened.

That wasn’t the point I was making and well you know it. You can’t with any credibility generalise as you’re trying desperately to do.

Um I don’t think Gilbert is generalising though, it’s statistics. Statistically the older generation voted in favour of leave & statistically they are less likely to have a degree than younger generations. Gilbert’s point was a lack of opportunity or formal education does not make someone less intelligent or “thick” as is being heavily being implied on these threads.

Disagree howitends, I suggest that many of those who didn't vote had no idea that 3 million previous non voters would leave the armchair and make a mass suicide bid to throw the country off a cliff and take the rest of us with them. Had the non-voters spent most of their time being brainwashed by Facebook the result would be different.

It’s not at all like ignoring the result of a general election. There are clear constitutional conventions governing how the result of a general election should be dealt with by parliament and government and the crown. Every constitution has a set of rules for how it works and to ignore those would be wrong. Those rules say that a referendum result cannot bind parliament. Because we are a parliamentary democracy.
Honestly, it’s not that hard.

must admit I've never met a DM reader so you'll have to keep me updated

Look... a bit of exaggeration is fine but you can't possibly know the newspaper habits of everyone youve ever met

Or can you? I suppose to be very fair it depends wher you live...so in a convent youd be pretty sure

So if there is a second ref.
Hypothetically speaking, say remain won by same margin as leave did in 2016 but on a lower turnout?
Would that be an end to it?

And yes indeed some leave and remain voters voted in the full assumption, quite rightly, that the vote would be upheld...it was on the leaflet and that pratt Cameron said so before he pissed off

Some leave and remain voters voted in the full understanding that the referendum was only advisory

The fact that referendums are usually advisory is a fact

The fact that this referendum was advisory is also fact

Its not a rewrite of history but i do understand the argument that we were promised...by a group of people we know to lie to get what they want and often dont keep their manifesto promises.....that we would leave

Both some leave and remain voters feel this way

Both some leave and remain voters thought that for once a politician would keep their promise

My ideal plan forward would be to cancel Brexit for now.
The government goes away and works out a deal, and it's then put forward for a vote again, as to whether the public wants to leave or not.
I'm a remainer, but if the vote was I favour of leave again, with all the information/plans known, I think I'd be more willing to accept it, rather than the shit storm we're in now

catsinspace

I doubt it, im not sure this will ever be sorted.

The country is so pissed off

Sorry...re the daily mail reading i guess its also your definition on met

So i can hand on heart say i have never snogged a daily mail reader

Dh has

Oh god

Sorry gilbert i am in no way insinuating that when you say met you mean snog!!!

I was using it as a silly example of what i meant

That's what I was thinking, Rufus.

I didn't vote in 2016 due to attending a family funeral in the US, and I was too late for postal voting.
DH voted leave. I probably would have done the same.

The whole situation is a mess of untold proportions. Whatever happens, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle now.

Donald we had a PM and govt who agreed to abide by the result. Since they made such a commitment it's obvious that voters went to the polls in the expectation that whatever was voted for would take place.
History will judge David Cameron harshly, I expect. He went into it to silence his own critics and never expected that the voters wouldn't just stfu and do as he told them. He made no plan for what to do if he actually lost and then just pissed off and left everyone else to it.

My ideal plan forward would be to cancel Brexit for now.
The government goes away and works out a deal, and it's then put forward for a vote again, as to whether the public wants to leave or not.

The government can’t work out a deal unilaterally though & I thought the EU would only start negotiations once A50 was triggered? Have I got that wrong?

Rufus where does it leave us if we go through life assuming that everything a politician pledges is a lie? How do we ever vote again?
Personally I believe a manifesto should be legally binding - it might make politicians more careful I won't use the word honest about what they commit to.
I have honestly lost all faith. They say any old shit in the knowledge they can't be held to it!

I often wonder why the Lib Dems didn't do a lot better in the 2017 GE, as they were campaigning to remain?

I don't disagree at all with your last post iwanna

I do honestly think that sometimes they just cant honour the promise, they are not lying on purpose its just when they get into power they realise they can't do it, or months and months later they HAVE to change it.

And in my case it only really started when Cameron lied about child benefits

But i do have a small degree of sympathy for the libs dems for example who had to renege on one of their promises due, in part, to being the small partner of the conservatives

I think making manifestos legalling binding would be great

Theyd be really short then

I suppose saying they are lying is a bit harsh

They are either lying or they are stupid

Would that be better?