AIBU to think that Leave voters who complain about a lack of democracy are hypocrites?

[KennDodd]

Because they completely ignore the proven illegalities around the Leave campaign that would have made void the result had the referendum been binding.

@TalkinPaece thanks, I think I have had a previous discussion with her in a previous thread. You may have guessed it’s an area of interest to me, so I want to put the facts out there for anyone else reading this. Otherwise I have no interest to continue playing against someone debating/scoring points like some kind of intellectual exercise. Anyway bedtime calls before I fall further into this trap.

xkcd.com/386/

TalkinPaece
Thank you for the compliment - but you are wrong on the other counts.

funnelfanjo
Duty calls - not duty, but pleasure - I have a family celebration to attend some distance away. My relative is half French and he voted to Leave the EU as well.

Not very much for a CEO of a national scale organisation of 1200 people, but that’s civil service for you.You don’t do it for the remuneration.

Even worse - I noticed in one of the MHRA job advertisements, that they are citing 1300 employees - they have been hiring additional staff after all.
Have a pleasant day.

I think it doesn't really matter if a campaign for one side used spin, misrepresentation or even outright lies in their attempts to persuade people to vote in accordance with their side. I mean you can't just assume that people only voted that way because of this, and wouldn't have otherwise. And if some of them did, and would have voted differently, well that is unfortunate but it is not enough to invalidate the votes.

Japab.

Exactly. not a single person I know voted one way or another because of the campaign . however if someone remain did vote leave because of the bus. You can bet your bottom dollar someone also voted remain instead of leave tipped over perhaps by project fear, pound diving, recession Etc.

The EU is said to be in recession itself right now!

Leave broke funding rules (this is undeniable). imho, not broken so badly that the result is invalidated.

Both sides made predictions that didn't come untrue. I don't think those should be called 'Lies'. A lie is statement you KNOW to be false. No one can lie about a future they don't have full control over. They are just bad guessers.

Leave correctly predicted that the economy wouldn't fall apart (helps that Cameron didn't trigger A50 on 24 June as he all but promised to do).

Remain correctly predicted that economic growth has been badly reduced & job losses ensued.

Leave wrongly predicted that it would be 'The Easiest Trade Deal in History'.

Anyway, arguing over supposed facts isn't much help. People who voted Leave over line to Win don't care about facts. It was a vote from the Heart.

I'm British but I live in France. Been here for 20 years. Had my children here, bought a house here, etc.

And I just don't know what people who voted leave hope the UK government will deliver to improve the quality of life in the UK and stop the widening of the gap between rich and poor that it cannot currently do within the EU.

In France there is an excellent health system, free further education, good maternity leave, subsidized child care, very good employment rights and worker protection, a generous benefit system, a 35 hour working week, active trade unions, a manufacturing industry, an agricultural sector, etc.

The UK could have all these things if our government wanted to. And if France can have them whilst being a key member of the EU, I fail to see why the UK cannot too.

And then there is immigration. France indirectly controls immigration via tight employment laws. Worker's rights are protected and enshrined in law in ways that make France unattractive to exploitative ultra capitalist employers and therefore the cheap, exploited migrant labour they seek to attract.

France is by no means perfect and there is discontent (yellow jackets for example - although I would say to the yellow jackets that they should try living in the UK if they really want something to complain about).

But I just wanted to say that from my perspective it would appear that the problems in the UK that so many are rightly unhappy about are UK problems not EU problems. And I fear that they will get worse after brexit.

But I just wanted to say that from my perspective it would appear that the problems in the UK that so many are rightly unhappy about are UK problems not EU problems. And I fear that they will get worse after brexit.

Yep

Beachcomber that is very true.

We've mismanaged our situation within the EU on our own.

Brexit has done so much damage to the UK.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/06/a-shambles-on-which-the-sun-never-sets-how-the-world-sees-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard&fbclid=IwAR1dSMSmz9BebSJ6NFgVO344nVTi7sy82g8xZGGuhRLudyqh0dsRUlHJTek

"Leave broke funding rules (this is undeniable). imho, not broken so badly that the result is invalidated."

To my mind that is even less relevant than if they had told lies.

This wasn't like voting for a party and if it is found that the party has operated illegally then people will have put into power an org that used illegal practices.

People weren't voting for the campaigns were they? They were voting for a question on a paper and the antics of those trying to persuade a yes or no do not invalidate my yes or no.

What about the govenment sending out the vote EU thing to every house... Before they called the vote.... Timing is the only reason that is not questioned.

What about the government sending out the vote EU thing to every house... Before they called the vote....
You mean this leaflet
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
that has the date of the vote on it ?

To my mind that is even less relevant than if they had told lies.

Sending £350m a week to the EU?

Turkey joining the EU?

Creating an EU army?

All lies.

that has the date of the vote on it ?

In hind sight that might have been a mistake

No it was to do with the amount of time before the election , not sure if it was six weeks before the vote or something like that, it was possible to use money, after that date the money counted as funds for remain

mummmy
What leaflet?
If it was published by the government it will be on the Web ....
could you link to it please?
just that I cannot remember it arriving

That leaflet was sent out between the 11th and 13th April 2016 - so at least 10 weeks before the referendum.

*talkin8

That francois bloke might have it

Everytime he is on telly he is waving it

Everyone else binned theirs, i reckon he is the only person in the uk with a copy

Oh poop

Bold fail

The referendum period started on 15 April 2016 and ended on 23 June 2016, and the spending limits applied during that period.

Forgot the title. How bias. Is that.
Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the ...
PDF assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...

Sorry the link worked in Google...
Just search for it.....

That leaflet was setting out the Government’s position on whether the UK should leave or remain.

Yeah, read the title.
They wanted us to remain ....
And were shocked when it didn't work ...
As people didn't do what they were told like nice little robots .

Not sure what your point is - the Government’s official position was Remain.