AIBU to think that Leave voters who complain about a lack of democracy are hypocrites?

[KennDodd]

Because they completely ignore the proven illegalities around the Leave campaign that would have made void the result had the referendum been binding.

Does Rupert Murdoch have a vote in this country?

About 17.4 million it would seem.

which landed gentry are brexiteers?
we told you some
Yes, two.

yyyy
Don't you think three years of Brexit bollocks has been enough honouring? TM was a Remainer and could probably foresee what a laughable catastrophe it was going to be, but she respected the result enough to willingly wreck her party, our global reputation, spend £££ of remain-voting taxpayers' money to those ends, squander priceless UK-EU goodwill built up through post-WWII cooperative efforts and neglect severe domestic social problems in favour of boomeranging between London and Brussels trying to sort out a Leave deal. And if a PM is willing to press on when the real risk of a cancer drugs shortage is being reported as a direct result of your vote being respected, I don't know how you have the gall to complain about being ignored. How much more are you going to ask of your fellow citizens?

Haven't RTFT but if it was the other way around and the leave voters wanted another vote, the remainers would be up in arms. Quite rightly.

aeroflot
If you're saying that the decision to leave the EU should be left up to the public, given we don't know what the public is thinking currently because it's been concretely recognised that the precise Leave:Remain ratio we got in 2016 would be very unlikely to be reproduced in 2019, then how could we be sure that the decision has actually been left to the public? Or do you actually not think that we should base the Leave decision on the public opinion anymore?

the racist viscount didnt count then? why is that?

you said farmers werent brexiteers- they are. why did you say that?

you didnt realise murdoch was a brexiteer- because he cant vote in the uk? is that right?

ok so two of the leading brexiteers in this country are landed gentry but they dont count? the other, multi-millionaires, farage, banks, dyson, they dont count as elites either?

oh dear.

I included the viscount. I wasn’t aware Boris Johnson was a landowner.

Are all farmers brexiteers, Helmet?

If one more person mentions “the constitution” I shall scream. We haven’t fucking got one.

Are all farmers brexiteers, Helmet?

Er no, but then you were the one who said this: I think far more land owners voted remain as farmers have tended to do well out of the EU.

I really don't know what you are arguing here. Can you elaborate? You seem to be getting a lot of stuff wrong. Do you genuinely think voting Brexit was a vote against the establishment?

Clavinova, if you’re going to insist on google battles...

The latest EMA press release says that 39% of staff have moved to Amterdam, and that they are anticipating a loss of 25%. I obviously can’t reference the actual conversations I have with relevant people in the profession, so I can only say you’ll have to come back at the end of the year to see whether I’m right that the press releases are on the optimistic side of things.

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-now-operating-amsterdam

As for MHRA, you’re not reading the right part of the coprporate plan. It is an executive agency of the DHSS. So funded two ways - both from government funds and from fees paid by industry. All its employees are civil servants and they can’t just say to ex-EMA staff “oh walk up the road and clock on with us” any more than laid-off Tesco staff could walk over to Sainsbury’s for a shift or two. The plan lays out how MHRA is going to rise to the challenge of the next five years, but they haven’t been able to expand massively before 29 March because up to then (and now 12 April), EMA still legally retained their applicable responsibilities, not MHRA. And thanks to this Brexit shit show, they still can’t plan because we don’t know whether we’ll have a transition as per the WA or something else. The WA is a bit thin but still sets out the principle on how EMA and MHRA do the handover.

Helmet - are you right that Boris is a landowner as you claimed?
How much land does he own?

I thought it was all the wealthy people who wanted to remain? When one looks at some of the directors of Open Britain (behind calls for the people's vote) such as Roland Rudd, they're not exactly struggling for cash.

@lablablab Haven't RTFT but if it was the other way around and the leave voters wanted another vote, the remainers would be up in arms. Quite rightly Depends. If the remain vote campaigned and won on “the status quo”, and then said - actually we’re going to join the euro and Schengen and share the asylum seeker burden with Germany, then leavers would have a point in demanding another vote, because that’s not the basis on which remain won.

But the problem here is that leave won with no clear consenus of what leave meant. Even Farage was going round saying of course we’d negotiate a brilliant deal under which we would leave. So, now it is clear there are various routes to “leave”, it is absolutely fair to offer those to the public and say - is this what you meant when you said you wanted Brexit. To be fair, make it preferential voting rather than yes or no, then we can offer No Deal, WA, common market 2.0 or Revoke A50 and get a proper feel for what the country thinks.

"Also, a good point made by Donald Tusk this week - this was a second referendum, the first being in 1975"

There wasn't a referendum for joining the EU in 1975, it was a referendum to join the common market which has now grown into the EU.

"They are terrified of a second referendum because they know how marginal the original vote was and the shit show that Brexit has been since means Leave would
never win again"

Never assume that leave won't win again. People assumed that remain would win, that's why everyone was aging that the vote in 2016 would be acted on and it was to be the only vote, vmbecause they were convinced remain would win. Leave won though and now MPS are demanding a second vote, just like a lot of remainders because they were so sure remain would win and they didn't. Also I'm not so sure that leavers are terrified of having another vote. They don't want one because we've already had one and we were told that the result would be acted upon and it hasn't happened

To be honest I thought remain would win. I voted leave and was sure we would lose.

Oh and before anyone asks, no I won't go into why I voted leave as this is not what the thread is about.

I don't know, are you trying to suggest he's common people?

He's hardly Citizen Smith, is he?

Ooh ooh, how about Lord Lawson, I believe he owns a lot of land in France. And Lord Forsyth. 'Keeping it real'.

The thing is Remain doesn't and never has claimed to be an anti-establishment movement, does it? (or have I missed that?)

Whereas many (Not all obv) Brexiteers seem to genuinely think that Brexit is an anti-establishment movement I've heard this a lot.

This, despite being backed by multi-millionaires, non-doms, public school educated, etc, etc, many farmers - (contrary to what Ilovewhippet thought) - Murdoch - (contrary to what Ilovewhippet thought), and yes, several members of the landed gentry - (contrary to what Ilovewhippet thought.)

It's delusional, but hey.

Someone on Twitter said today “If I had £1 for every version of Brexit there is I’d have £17.4 million”. Spot on.

There wasn't a referendum for joining the EU in 1975, it was a referendum to join the common market which has now grown into the EU no, it was a referendum on whether to leave the EC. We joined in 1973.

Even Thatch thought it was a good idea to stay in. Britain has made a vital contribution to the past. She has a contribution to make to the future. It will be bigger in Europe than alone

www.margaretthatcher.org/document/102675

I have no issue with another referendum.
I can understand why there is so much animosity towards the possibility of it.

I'm also looking forward to the EP elections to vote for whatever Euro sceptics I can.

several members of the landed gentry - (contrary to what Ilovewhippet thought.)

Two members is hardly representative.

unbelievable

funnelfanjo
Clavinova, if you’re going to insist on google battles...

I linked to a press release stating, "with the anticipated staff loss of 25% of its total workforce"

You linked to a press release, stating the EMA; "anticipates losing approximately 25% of its total workforce (of around 900 staff members)"

If that is what the EMA are saying, then neither of us are in a position to dispute it. Whatever the figures - the Guardian newspaper is still misleading its readers.

I obviously can’t reference the actual conversations I have with relevant people in the profession
Indeed - you can't.

As for MHRA
You asked me, "where’s this extra funding for MHRA coming from then?"

How did you expect me to answer that - hotline to the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

I quoted one source of funding - I could offer more suggestions; EU membership fees we longer have to pay, record government surplus in January 2019 (£5.6bn greater than January 2018), the fact that EMA staff don't pay direct taxes (they pay an EU community tax which goes into the EU budget) - they will pay income tax in their new jobs if they stay in the UK.

Once the UK is out of the EU, in the sunlit uplands of WTO terms
when will you vote in the WTO elections?

But MHRA is self funding from fees paid by the pharmaceutical industry. Getting/changes us expensive.
I believe it make a money for the Treasury

Clavinova the Guardian newspaper is still misleading its readers what the what now? You haven’t referenced the Guardian in this thread. Stop moving the goalposts. Only 39% of EMA staff have moved from London to Amsterdam. They hope “anticipate” another 36% will move this year. That’s still 220 UK direct jobs lost because of Brexit.

MHRA extra funding from the mythical loadsamoney Brexit Bonus? I don’t regard that as a credible option.