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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that Leave voters who complain about a lack of democracy are hypocrites?

435 replies

KennDodd · 03/04/2019 20:37

Because they completely ignore the proven illegalities around the Leave campaign that would have made void the result had the referendum been binding.

OP posts:
78percentLindt · 05/04/2019 17:02

Should have been getting initial approvals and/or changes to product licences is expensive

funnelfanjo · 05/04/2019 17:06

But MHRA is self funding from fees paid by the pharmaceutical industry no, only the assessment of medicines. All its other functions are funded from the Department of Health budget.

78percentLindt · 05/04/2019 17:20

The bit of MHRA related to EMC is self funding The other functions shouldn't change much if at all

ChavvyOldBrexiteer · 05/04/2019 19:12

YABVVU.
It is extremely hypocritical to try to stop the result of a democratic vote just because you don’t like it.

Many Mumsnet Remainer Extremists churn out the tired old tropes of Leavers being racists, old people, dead people (‘let’s have another referendum because so many Leave voters have died’; it is so offensive!) stupid and uneducated. They like to correct Leavers spelling mistakes on Leave forums. I once witnessed an enlightened’ Remainer dismiss Leavers as the great unwashed’; another said that the day after the referendum she had to restrain herself from `spitting on old people’ at the supermarket. All these people are doing is fuelling the rise of alt-right extremism and encouraging the cycle of elitism and alienation felt by so many who voted Leave.

It’s ironic that on one hand Remainer Extremists castigate racism but think ageism is acceptable! Can’t they see that the abuse they shower on Leavers is similar to the abuse that racists shower on other races? Not all Remainers but certainly the EU fanatics amongst their number, are guilty of terrible prejudice – a prejudice that comes from the same place as the racist – the hatred of `the other’.

All isms’ are to be castigated but to these EU fanatics some isms’ are perfectly acceptable, even encouraged as a sign of their superior moral thinking. Abuse thereby becomes a form of virtue-signalling. Why do the white working class feel alienated? Why did so many of them vote to leave the EU? Extreme Remainers don’t know because many of them don’t actually know many working class people socially – their cleaners and au pairs might enlighten them but are probably too scared to. I was astonished to read a socially-liberal upper-middle class man write on a FB post; `I have never understood why so many working class people voted to Leave’. Perhaps he needs to Leave Notting Hill for a bit to get a different perspective.

Insisting that Leavers are all wealthy elitists is simply not true. Yes, there are powerful businessmen in the Leave camp but there are just as many, probably more in the Remain camp. Richard Branson, George Soros, plus a huge percent of the establishment who want to keep the status quo – the status quo that benefits them. It is patronising to say that those with the least have the most to lose from Brexit. It suggests that you know better than them. But you don’t.

Mumsnet Remainers need to spend a bit of time outside their woke BBC echo chamber and discuss the Referendum calmly with some of these people to try to understand their views rather than demonising them on social media platforms. You may claim not to know any Leavers but this won’t be true: you do but they are simply too terrified to `come out’ with their opinions for fear of being ostracised and abused.

Screaming at those with a different viewpoint will not convince them to your ‘enlightened’ opinion but simply retrench them in theirs.

Extremist Remainers need to understand that the whole country is not on the woke BBC-land bus and try and understand the very justifiable grievances of communities that voted Leave. Viciously slagging off those with a different opinion will never heal our divided country. Listening to them with an open mind might.

TalkinPaece · 05/04/2019 19:29

Chavvy
So are you happy about the democratic standards of the WTO?

Do you think that Brexit will stop the elites (on both sides) cashing in from the other 99%?

Do you think that our elected representatives are looking out for us, or for themselves?

ContinuityError · 05/04/2019 19:30

Welcome to MN ChavvyOldBrexiteer - what an amazing first post!!!

ChavvyOldBrexiteer · 05/04/2019 19:30

And now I've started, why don't any of you fanatical EU obsessives ever add your pal Dave Cameron's 9 billion pound pro-Remoan leaflet into the financial pot?
And what about all the Project Fear lies from your other pro-Remoaners, George Osborne and Mark Carney who insisted the sky would fall in?
Lies, lies, lies.

TalkinPaece · 05/04/2019 19:34

Chavvy
Would you care to answer the questions about democracy (that being the title of the thread) ?

ChavvyOldBrexiteer · 05/04/2019 19:36

@Talkin; are you happy with the democratic standards of the EU? A bunch of unelected politicians (I could have said OLD WHITE men but I am not ageist or racist) who have the final say on so many of our laws?

At least we can get our rubbish politicians out even if we have to wait a few years to do so!

No I don't think our elected representatives will look out for us; this is why they will mostly be voted out at the next election. And then we can get some decent people in.

A pox on all you Champagne Remainers! Pay your cleaners a living wage!

Power to the People!

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/04/2019 19:37

r pro-Remoaners

Aaaand ya lost me

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/04/2019 19:38

A bunch of unelected politicians

I thought that was what the election ps on the 23rd of may were all about

Electing people

TalkinPaece · 05/04/2019 19:39

Chavvy
Who are the elected folks at the WTO?

And the unelected bods in Whitehall - like Olly Robbins and Nick Timothy are fine with you ???

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/04/2019 19:41

A pox on all you Champagne Remainers! Pay your cleaners a living wage!

Oh good lord

Although a few friends of mine are cleaners, they get paid a very good hourly rate. Much more than me, but ive never cleaned a toilet and i really dont want to start in someone elses house

LittleChristmasMouse · 05/04/2019 19:41

I thought that was what the election ps on the 23rd of may were all about

But we can only elect the MEPs for the UK.

27 other countries elect MEPs who we have no say over and yet who can pass laws that affect us. If we had a huge issue with X countries MEPs we can't do anything about it can we?

Alsohuman · 05/04/2019 19:44

You did know MEPs are democratically elected? The next elections are next month.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/04/2019 19:45

Then the poster should have been a little more specific

She said they were unelected

They are all elected

I do understand your point little i wouldnt have queried it if you were the poster and had said that Smile

Alsohuman · 05/04/2019 19:47

Oh ffs. Would you like to take all the other countries' MEPs away? Ours vote on issues that affect the other 27, that's the much vaunted democracy leavers are obsessed with.

LittleChristmasMouse · 05/04/2019 19:55

Oh ffs. Would you like to take all the other countries' MEPs away? Ours vote on issues that affect the other 27, that's the much vaunted democracy leavers are obsessed with.

No not at all. But why can't you admit that no country has the same democratic control over MEPs as they do over their own MPs?

If a few countries elected far right MEPs we would have to accept it. We couldn't vote them out. Is that democratic?

tabulahrasa · 05/04/2019 20:03

“27 other countries elect MEPs who we have no say over and yet who can pass laws that affect us. If we had a huge issue with X countries MEPs we can't do anything about it can we?“

That’s exactly how MPs work as well though...

ContinuityError · 05/04/2019 20:04

If a few countries elected far right MEPs we would have to accept it.

In the same way that the EU27 MEPs have had to put up with the Kippers like Batten and Farage?

Alsohuman · 05/04/2019 20:04

Pretty much . We don't do a great job electing our own representatives so I don't think we can criticise anyone else.

LittleChristmasMouse · 05/04/2019 20:07

That’s exactly how MPs work as well though...

How? There's a lot we could do domestically to affect change in our parliament. How could we change who is elected as MEPs in another country?

I can lobby MPs in the UK but I can't lobby MEPs can I to possibly vote against their country's best interest?

LittleChristmasMouse · 05/04/2019 20:08

ContinuityError

Exactly.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/04/2019 20:10

In the same way that the EU27 MEPs have had to put up with the Kippers like Batten and Farage?

Yeah

Poor sods

LittleChristmasMouse · 05/04/2019 20:11

So if we extend Brexit into June, or beyond, we have to participate in the elections.

The EU will request that the UKs MEPs don't vote on issues (they can't enforce that though).

How democratic would it be, for the other 27 countries, if our MEPs take their seats, exercise all powers and vote on issues that effect the EU possibly after we've long gone?