To buy a flat with no outside space with 2 kids - am I making a mistake??

[AliciaWhiskers]

Back story is that I split from my ex 3 years ago, the divorce came through last year and he bought me out of our marital home. I have been renting, and am now trying to buy somewhere.

I've got 2 boys who are 10 and 7. 10 year old has ASD and loves football, so at the moment he is outside a lot of the time playing football. Our current rental property has a large shared courtyard (concrete, rather than grass) where he does this. 7 year old prefers lego and playing inside, and is a bit of a nightmare to try and encourage outside.

I've found a place that I like (and the kids like), but it's a flat, in a very large complex (80+ flats), and with no outside space. The nearest park would be a 10 minute walk away. With 10 year old's ASD, I couldn't let him go there by himself at the moment, and it will be tricky to encourage 7 yo to come with us.

I love the flat, but the lack of outside space really worries me. I can't afford anything bigger (ie a small house with a garden) in the same area, so the alternative would be to look further out but be in the car more. This flat means we could walk to school/work/shops etc. Being able to walk to places is one of my main priorities - my mental health really suffers being reliant on a car to get everywhere.

AIBU to move from a rental place with some outside space, to somewhere with none? (If it makes any difference, their Dad's house, where they spend half of their time, is a huge 5 bed detached house with a big garden. This would be a 3 bed flat)

Help!!

it,s a no from me as well. What happens in the summer when you want to sit outside in the sunshine, nice glass of something in hand? No chance.

Any chance you could buy the property where you currently live? The landlord might want to sell (if it's a private landlord) and you could get a good price as a sitting tenant.

I wouldn't.

I lived in a small flat til my child was 5, and step-child who visited every other weekend and that drove ME insane and there were no ASD issues to consider. We did actually have a small shared 'garden' at the back but it was just a strip of lawn and difficult to access.

We finally moved to a house with garden and it was sheer bliss being able to let the kids out to play.

A garden (I don't count a balcony or terrace as outside space, seeing as you can't play football on them) is a luxury.

The OP does not have a garden . She is talking about access to safe outside space for her DS with an ASD.

it won't be a nightmare (I know because I live in a flat with 2 small kids that's great - but it could actually be a nightmare for the OP or others with a child who has complex needs such as ASD BestBeforeYesterday

How much further out of the city centre would you need to be to afford the small house with outside space?

I looked at a small 3 bed (smaller square footage than the flat) with a small garden but a larger shared green area at the front of it. It is 3.6 miles from the flat (which is near current school and likely secondary). According to google maps it would take 15 mins to drive it now, so at rush hour the it would take at least 30 minutes to get to school, and then I would need to get to work, which I can't drive to as there is no parking. From the flat we could walk to current school in 15 mins, about 20 mins to the chosen secondary, and then I would walk to work.

As a child I was in a flat until 10. I was miserable. I would not do it OP better to live further away for now and travel in. You can move again when they are grown up.

Any chance you could buy the property where you currently live? The landlord might want to sell (if it's a private landlord) and you could get a good price as a sitting tenant.

I couldn't afford it

It really depends upon where you live. Here I would say, just buy a terraced house - flats are often more expensive here than two bed houses. But I know the equation isn't the same everywhere, I'm looking at properties I could buy outright for £160k other places dream on for double that

I'm in Bristol, and the area where the kids are at school is expensive. Moving school isn't an option.

Someone asked the good things about the flat:

• Location

- close to current school (15 min walk) - close to likely secondary school (20 min walk) - close to my walk (20 mins from the flat, about 30 mins from school, I currently live 45 min walk from work, so this is a normal walk for me) - close to shops/restaurants - close to the museum - 10-15 mins walk to the park

• It has a parking space (which probably pushes the cost up, but parking is difficult in this area, so a parking space is great)
• 3 good size bedrooms
• A separate office space which could potentially be walled off and changed into a 4th bedroom if needed
• Open plan, really light and airy and spacious (this is important to me!)
• Separate mezzannine level where potentially I could have a sofa etc and a space away from the kids, so their toys etc could be in living room and I could have a more adult space that is separate (this is in the same area as the office space)
• I can afford it
• The kids like it
• It's the first place out of about 50 properties that I've viewed that I actually like and could imagine us living

It has LOADS going for it. The lack of outside space (and the maintenance costs) is really the only thing I am worried about. I though that all the good bits would mean that the lack of outside space wouldn't be too much of a problem, but now I am seriously doubting that, and reading a lot of these replies, I'm even more concerned.

I don't think it's fair on your older son, to be cooped up in a flat. Why not look at houses further afield instead of city centre. Walking to work is nice but not at the expense of a garden and your son's hobby. Driving to places is just part of modern life, you don't get much for your money in a city centre!

Have you looked at nearby villages and outskirts with cheaper housing? If you hate driving why not buy near a train station?

God why are people so weird about no garden.

On MN it is a crime to have children when you have no garden. Everyone lives in a 'quiet cul-de-sac'.

OP, you buy what you can afford. £24k is a staggering amount of rent.

Could your ex not stump up a bit more cash to help house his children adequately?

I understand you not wanting to deal with him, but morally shouldn't he be seeing that his boys, especially the one with SN are happy and healthy??

You need to carefully consider your OWN lifestyle.

I lived in flats with my youngest kids, it was fine because we were central and they were quite young. We were just outside pretty much all day, and they had a couple of hours to play indoors when I was doing chores. In Central London, there's loads to do indoors or outdoors so you can never be bored or run out of things to do.

It's much easier to be lazy when you have a garden: you can just open the door and let them outside. As soon as they are old enough to be left unsupervised, you can get on with your things and they are playing out there. It's easier because you don't need to spend so many hours out of the house, which is more difficult and expensive when they get older.

If you have no outside space, it's easier to take them all to a park or somewhere - they are not given a choice which they have with a garden.
It means YOU have less time at home, so you end up with feeling like nothing gets done.

What would work better for you?

OP I have lived in a flat with 2 children. I know mine don't have ASD but I think you will be FINE.

A safe, open space to live in....it's a great thing. The going out to the park is the only issue...and one that's easily got around.

Your ex is a prick.

I wouldn’t risk it personally OP. It’s a shame because it sounds perfect aside from the lack of outside space but sounds as though your eldest really needs and thrives on it.

Alicia the flat sounds fabulous - I can completely understand why you'd want to buy it!

Can you do an analysis of DS1's needs to try and work out what the consequences might be?

e.g. is the kicking a football essential?
is being in the open air essential?
what happens if DS1 doesn't / can't get outside for that 15 minute kick around?
Are there any alternatives that might serve a similar purpose?
Does DS need to be able to 'get out' when agitated?

Those are off the top of my head. I'm thinking that if you could identify the specific needs of your DS1 and the purpose served by the football / outside space, you might be able to judge if it is essential ...

If there is an alternative way of meeting his needs e.g. could the office space have an indoor tampoline or soft cushions or sensory stuff.

Or could you make that space a safe lego area for DS2 and allow DS1 to use the open plan space in a physical way (indoor football or climbing bar on the door perhaps?

Ex should be contributing to rent since it is his DCs home. I am constantly surprised at how selfish men are when it comes to their own DCs lifestyle.

I lived in a flat for 10 years with 2 DC no outside space

It was suffocating and my MH did suffer I also feel that the stress of a lot of neighbours could drive you mad too! I had a lot of neighbours who had no kids and they gave no fucks about excess noise or mess
I felt very trapped and it wasn’t ideal for DC either but I wasn’t in a position to be fussy

When we lived in a city I used to go with kids to David Lloyd. Something like that might work though need to go 3 times a week to make it viable. They have playcentre, kids sports clubs, tennis, swimming, gym, aerobics etc and cafe / restaurant. Youngest is ASD. Not sure how much football is available but lots of kids clubs are kicking ball round type things.

Living in flats is normal for lots of children. Most people I know live in flats with no outside space (I'm in London). People are not "cooped up". Hardly anyone I know has a house with a garden. And some of those who have a house have very little garden - maybe six feet of garden - just enough to hang a washing line. I think you should get the flat. The benefits far outweigh the downsides. Your son will get older and be more independent at some stage. You can go to the park for now. How about a football club that he can go to?

We lived in a 1st floor flat with no garden for several years when our DC were small. It wasn't fun.

OP I think you're mad looking at the centre when moving a few miles out could give you more space. What about somewhere with decent transport links so you don't need to drive?

He can play at his dad’s but that may mean he won’t enjoy staying at your that much.

Having said that, I missed not having a garden when mine was between 6 and 10, but after that he didn’t care about balls, blame the age or the Xbox, nowadays the only one who needs outside space is the dog.

When we lived in a city I used to go with kids to David Lloyd.

Yes that's a good suggestion. The university pool is close by, and we could join there as members, so maybe I could encourage swimming a bit more? Not sure if they have other sports that we could do as public members, but will look into that.

Can you do an analysis of DS1's needs to try and work out what the consequences might be?

Great idea, thank you. FWIW he loves the flat and really wants to live there, but I know when you are 10 it's pretty difficult to predict what it would actually be like on a day to day basis.

Don’t do it - keep looking .
Two kids here with very similar likes and dislikes - I am totally dependent on the one ,who can not sit still even for a second , being able to play outside on his own , whilst his brother is inside reading or on his tablet. It also means that sometimes the inside child will wander on out unplanned .
Someone else mentioned washing - the bigger they get the more I need a line outside - especially with all the sport!

We live city centre, two boys, in a flat with no garden. But we do have a football pitch / little park straight across the (quiet) road, and a large enclosed courtyard out the back - it's a bit like a back green, lots of kids from the other adjoining apartments will come out when they hear my boys running around. Plus we are on the ground floor and the only family - so it actually feels like it's all ours (except we don't have to maintain it). There are even a couple of nice dogs, whose owners don't seem to take much interest, so they come and run around with the kids.

The other thing that makes this work for us is that DH is around to take the boys to play footy across the road, or to the massive park round the corner. I would really resent having to stop whatever I am doing to take them all the time. As it is, I can shoo them out the back and watch them from the kitchen while I cook or whatever.

I live in a flat exactly like the one you are describing. The service charges are very high but the location is perfect for school and work.

My son is slightly older so maybe the lack of outdoor space was less of a problem. I did worry at first but it has been fine.

In the long run, it will be you who stays in that flat when the boys are gone. If you love it, I'd go for it