AIBU to think teacher and possibly school way out of line and WWYD?

[AstoundedandConfounded]

Name changed in case I somehow out myself!

I was mistakenly sent an email by a teacher from DS's school, which said about me "Don't you just wish you could tell her to piss off. It's clear where DS gets it from."

Just to clarify DS is in 6th form and I've emailed the school 3 times in his 6 years, so I'm not an annoying helicopter mother.

I am not happy about any of this, to say the least. I've been in touch with the head, shared the email and said I want to discuss it and received an apology back.

I have a meeting set up for this Thursday and am struggling to know how best to handle it. The issue I originally emailed in about was handled so badly that I think that is still my priority but I'm really hacked off that teachers are bad mouthing me and my DS (who is a good pupil) in emails.

WWYD?

I think you and FS are most likely persistent from what you've shared. Brilliant quality unless, as in this case, you are the receiving end (the staff I mean)

I hope the issues get resolved, very upsetting to read criticism of yourself and your family whether or not there is any truth/justification for it!

LOL, RandomMess I'm a solicitor, so you are probably right there!!!!! My clients are usually quite pleased. However, I'm aware that I have a tendency to go in too strong sometimes and I think DS may be the same. DD is much more laid back.

Also remember you are furious that they are bad mouting you and your sone... but here you are opening them up to far more public, if anonymou, badmouthing

But OP isn't badmouthing them. She's given a factual account of what happened.

"He's a bit opinionated....he challenges some of the teachers". Yeah, we know what that means. If I had a penny for every parent who had said that about their arrogant, immature and disruptive teenager

If a sixth form teacher - particularly one with high level responsibility for pastoral care - is unable to handle pupils with opinions, she's definitely in the wrong job.

He does well academically (although in a normal kind of way, he isn't a genius), is involved with sport, drama events and all that kind of thing. He's a bit opinionated in a justice warrior kind of way and I think he is probably a bit annoying sometimes as he challenges some of the teachers. I have said to him that if he has a point that may make a teacher look stupid, he should raise it separately rather than in front of the whole class. However, he is only 17 and has a lot to learn!
He sounds like a very different boy to how you first described him. Not criticizing, one of my Grandsons was very similar. What we used to say was "We love him, the teachers don't have to" …. and we sympathised with his teachers who had to deal with his behaviour. It didn't stop him being a lovely boy, he was just annoying in class!

I'm trying to work out why the head of 6th seems to dislike him so much and I'm thinking that they might think he is a bit annoying because he is opinionated.

You dont have to like everyone and not everyone has to like you. You don't have to like a teacher to learn from them or for them to teach you. Im sure if they write a reference that will be professional.

I think I would like clarification on what the person meant by "Its clear thats where DS gets it from .." What do they mean by "it".. that needs spelling out.

What outcome are you hoping for from doing that? The teacher already looks like an idiot. The head has already had to step in to smooth the situation over. The outcome either way us going to be verbal warning and/or written apology. Giving people an out can be better for building good relationships than rehashing what everyone knows was wrong in the first place.

That was the point. Get to the root of the original issue - Incident XX - not the bloody email!

Then make that clear by keeping the issues seperate and making it v clear what outcome you want. The email can be closed down quick even with an opening "we all know how inappropriate the email was and i hope to receive a written apology.... now the main issue....".

Getting to the bottom of why a teacher doesnt like a student is too wooly and pointless, sometimes people dont like each other. "Could we please speak honestly, get to the bottom of this right now?I don't want to have this hanging over us ALL until DS leaves school" is argumentative and makes you look like an idiot if actually you child has been making a pain of themselves in class. "Are there any concerns about my childs behaviour in class?" Would be a better way to ask the same question and keep the conversation on a more professional less personal slagging off level.

Every discuss with school you really want to follow the same format. Establish the problem from both school and home perspective, your solutions, schools solutions and joint solutions. If you find your stuck on the problems or you keep returning to the problems chances are the conversation isnt achieving anything more and probably needs to be terminated.

It doesn't matter if OP's son is the biggest PITA going (which it doesn't sound like he is). It's completely unacceptable for a member of staff to put thoughts like that in writing from, I assume, their work email address.

Killing them with kindness is the way to go. You have all the power here, and this is the best chance you'll ever have to get whatever the issue is resolved. You can also point out how reasonably you're dealing with this situation, as some parents/carers wouldn't be so measured in their response.

I wouldn't be able to resist mentioning that 'goodness knows' what else is sent from the school email, just to make sure that they actually do crack down on how email is being used.

Oooh. Ouch. As a former teacher I would never have written something like that in an email. And I was hardly Queen of Professionalism. That is mortifying. As a parent I would be steaming. Go in and give them hell.

Bottom line is, whatever the details of what the head of 6th said about the girls’ uniforms and whatever the detail of other incidents, the way your son is perceived in school is negative. If he’s genuinely a lad who has strong views and expresses them appropriately then I can’t see how this is a problem... it really sounds like there’s more to it though because I can’t see a member of staff making that comment (which of course is totally unprofessIonal) if he wasn’t a problem. I suspect there’s a big mismatch here in how you perceive him and how he comes across in school. You’ve already toned down your description of his behaviour over the course of the thread

What was that email in response to?

Thank you acciocat. I disagree, I don't think I've toned it down, I've just tried to explain what I meant - you've interpreted that as me toning it down, which means you assumed something different to start with. Surely, if DS were such a problem, his reports wouldn't be good, his attainment wouldn't be good, he wouldn't be involved in the school productions, sports teams, helping out at the charity fundraisers and all that other stuff and someone at the school would have mentioned this to me during his 6 years there. I guessed their dislike was because he was opinionated and challenged things, I also said it could be because we're not religious and the school is strongly CofE or because I'm a single parent.

However, I do agree that the Head of 6th form and Head of Pastoral Care want both me and DS to piss off! I suspect they may want me to piss off a lot more after the meeting with the Head on Thursday, but I've found this really helpful and will endeavour to be dignified, stick to the original issue and definitely won't be demanding apologies.

Christina R has a point.

"Killing them with kindness is the way to go. You have all the power here, and this is the best chance you'll ever have to get whatever the issue is resolved. You can also point out how reasonably you're dealing with this situation, as some parents/carers wouldn't be so measured in their response. "
OP has said that her DS had good school reports and parents meetings and no letter's home or indication of misbehaviour. If the school has a negative view of him, and her.. so what is their problem? I'd ask because UCAS references are coming up and you want to know if there's something that affects this.
At the end of the day. The head probably just wants this whole issue to quietly go away and I'm betting that you won't get much out of them. I'd be surprised if they didn't try to briefly apologise for not much and turn it back on you. But you sound like you can handle yourself OP. Don't let it upset you. You and DS will be shaking the dust from your sandals of that school soon enough.

What outcome do you want For your initial.issue and what outcome do you want regarding the email?

School reports are often quite vague; schools will have a policy which staff have to stick rigidly to and some even use generic statement banks (awful imo but such are the demands of the job that this is what schools have resorted to.) My point being, the lad may have done well academically and been in sports teams etc - a report focuses on progress and attainment and I don’t think you would pick up nuances about certain behaviours from reports.

What’s unusual is that it sounds as though your ds has only really had problems since entering 6th form, and it’s usually at this point that the bright, questioning students really come into their own. Lower school can be more challenging but they flourish in the more mature environment of 6th form.

I don’t think I’ve interpreted any posts incorrectly... you said you’ve advised your son to speak to teachers 1:1 rather than in front of the class if he’s going to make them look stupid. To me, that sounds very like pain in the arse material... the sort of student who has an agenda and is wanting to be controversial but without the maturity to do it in the right way. I have masses of controversial discussion in my 6th form lessons - it’s great. But then I’m an English teacher. If I was teaching quadratic equations and some student kept nit picking or wanting to discuss uniform issues in a maths lesson, or took delight in pointing out a typo on a power point it would get pretty wearing.

It’s all about context and what’s appropriate. Obviously none of us are there and neither have you been during his lessons but the fact remains that there’s something about his attitude that isn’t going down well

This is completely unprofessional and you are fully entitled to an apology. Whoever sent that email is an idiot. But I think you need to stop and question why your son is perceived in this way as teachers don't take against children for no good reason. He is obviously behaving in such a way (and there are clues in your description of him as well) that is perhaps causing an issue. It may be that he is undermining their authority with his "questioning". It rings alarm bells that you have mentioned him "making teachers look bad" That does not happen with simple expressing of opinions etc. I would ask the staff what he is doing to cause upset and be prepared to listen and accept what is said. You aren't there and they are and they will know what the issue is.
Anyone saying teachers shouldn't discuss children, parents etc - yes not in an email- of course not- but in informal conversations letting off steam? I'm sorry, but it is unrealistic to say this shouldn't happen. It happens in every job and teachers are not some higher power who can hold all the stresses in. Some children and parents are extremely difficult and can make or break teachers. This attitude is unrealistic and another indicator of why teachers are leaving in droves. As is a parent not being willing to listen and accept their child's faults (That is not directed at you op but a general observation), parents are not there and teachers are and yet many parents simply will not accept the teacher does not have a grudge but is merely justifiably unhappy with a child's attitude or behaviour.
It must have been very upsetting to receive that email and it was completely unacceptable. Take this opportunity to be the bigger person as it will make them feel even worse and ensure they will resolve whatever issue you originally have to your satisfaction. It is a chance to give someone a break and they will be eternally grateful to you for being magnanimous about it, if you feel that is something you can do. Good luck with getting it resolved.

Wow, just wow! That teacher is extremely stupid to put something like that in an email at all, never mind send it to you, and will presumably be in serious shit now (rightly). I hope the meeting with the school goes well. As you say yourself, I would be dignified and professional in the meeting. Really the ball is in their court to explain themselves and what they have done to ensure the situation does not happen again - they know they have done wrong let's face it! That teacher is probably lying down in a dark room as we speak...

Sooo unprofessional I'm mortified on their behalf. I'm a teacher and sometimes get exasperated with students, and yes, even their parents, but there is no way I would ever be so stupid as to put those thoughts into the written word. Their roles make this even worse and I would expect them to get a warning for this.

Just a thought... is your ds perhaps picking up a bit of a defensive attitude, and this is the underlying reason he challenges things when it’s not the time or place?

Because I find it odd that you assume being a single parent and not being religious might be reasons for the staff taking a dislike to your ds and you. Which just seems really odd and highly unlikely. Both those things - being a single parent and not having a religious affiliation - are completely normal these days. In fact if a child in my classes had both parents married and regular church goers then they’d be in a minority.

Unless of course you’re sending him to a very religious school, which seems unlikely as you don’t share that belief.

Getting into a 'what's your problem with my ds?' type of exchange will go nowhere and lose you vital ground in getting the original issue resolved.

A 'now I'm going to be very concilliary about this email because you're going to resolve this issue for me' approach is the one to go for.

It's difficult because you obviously feel very protective of your ds, but keep him out of it as much as possible and the email and the problematic issue very much in focus.

My dcs' reports have a grade for behaviour in each lesson. Do yours? I'd have expected you to have got some hint from that if your ds was a PITA and it doesn't sound like you have, or at the parents' evening.
You don't sound like much of a PITA yourself if you've only ever emailed 3 times in his high school years.

Do they know you’re a solicitor? Have you got lots of professional scary sounding words you could drop into the meeting?

TansyViola - that's a really good point. There is a section in reports that notes effort, which is always good and usually above his academic achievement. Head of 6th form and School Head also add comments at the beginning of the annual report and I've just dug out the last one and there isn't even a hint of criticism. Head of 6th referred to him as "a charming member of our 6th form" - which is clearly bollocks, or maybe that is teacher code for PITA?!

acciocat I guess we'll have to agree to differ. I wouldn't be questioning things or feeling somewhat defensive if I hadn't seen that email. I'd have been carrying on completely oblivious. Now, I'm questioning me and him! Didn't choose to send either DC to a religious school, it was the only option within a sensible commuting radius. We live in a rural market town and I think people are possibly more conservative and the school is very traditional and very CofE.

Thank you christinarossetti19 - both your posts make a lot of sense. I'm going to stick to the original issue and seek a resolution from other members of staff.

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig - lol, I'll work on the long scary words!

IME parents who defend their kids as ‘feisty’ or ‘after justice’ or whatever are often glossing over the fact they’re just bloody annoying

Its the parents who claim their dc are perfect who are the real problem, both from a teacher and parent pov, I thought the OP was honest about her DS. A lot of 17 year olds are annoying

Personally I would concentrate on getting the original issue sorted out and in the process eye rolling over the email in a rising above it/ clearly this is completely unacceptable how am I meant to have confidence in your staff kind of way. There is a side of me that thinks everyone makes mistakes and tbh the horror the teacher will have felt will in itself be a punishment. Years ago a woman I was managing sent an email meant for a mate to me moaning about something I'd done. When I didn't drag her to HR she literally would do anything for me for ever more. I will never forget the look on her face when she realised and I also had some fun ribbing her about it make sure you check the addressee carefully Joanne