AIBU to think teacher and possibly school way out of line and WWYD?

[AstoundedandConfounded]

Name changed in case I somehow out myself!

I was mistakenly sent an email by a teacher from DS's school, which said about me "Don't you just wish you could tell her to piss off. It's clear where DS gets it from."

Just to clarify DS is in 6th form and I've emailed the school 3 times in his 6 years, so I'm not an annoying helicopter mother.

I am not happy about any of this, to say the least. I've been in touch with the head, shared the email and said I want to discuss it and received an apology back.

I have a meeting set up for this Thursday and am struggling to know how best to handle it. The issue I originally emailed in about was handled so badly that I think that is still my priority but I'm really hacked off that teachers are bad mouthing me and my DS (who is a good pupil) in emails.

WWYD?

It's extremely unprofessional but I would suggest that at your meeting with the Head you focus on a resolution to the original issue.

If the Head has apologised, you could request a written apology from the teacher(s) but it is highly unlikely that the school are going to share how they have dealt with the issue and whether any sanction has been issued.

Accept any apology, be professional and focus on the outcome that you need for DS.

but surely they shouldn't be emailing each other about telling parents to piss off?

Well, people will moan about their clients/customers/parents etc

I have frequently verbally or used the internal IM facility to have a moan about a client.

Thanks all.

Wolfie my terminology isn't great, so perhaps I shouldn't have described him as a justice warrior. DS is really anti-prejudice in a youthful and enthusiastic way, so he raises stuff he thinks is unfair. I don't think he is disruptive or badly behaved or in anyway detracts from the teaching of other pupils but he will argue his case. For example there was a big thing about the length of girls skirts and the head of sixth form told the girls that they needed to think of the impact that their short skirts had on boys and male members of staff and DS thought this was really bad, like the head of 6th form thought that men were uncontrollable beasts who couldn't hold it together in the face of a pair of legs. That kind of thing.

Ooops!

I am an ex teacher, pastoral care too! So please bear with me as I am not condoning the error or lack of resposne to the initial issue!

The HoPC will only have the HT/HoD to talk to relatively freely. They will be her release valve, iyswim.

That kind of comment is often made after a fairly heated head to head oith a student, followed up by an email from a parent. The sort of thing a 'Justice Warrior' student with a be in his bonnet will elicit if/when he goes off on one. Which they do, it is the nature of the beast.

You say you have told him that if he is going to make the teacher look stupid he should do it in private not in front of the class. Well, that shows he is 'one of those' students who don't yet know when to stop talking and start considering why they aren't getting the repsonse they want and that you are supporting him in the belief that he has a point, but should make it at a different time.

So maybe, and remember I don't know the seriousness of the reason for original email, the HoPC is right in her thoughts but horribly wrong in her email skills!

Either way, she will be extremely embarrassed and will get a verbal reminder of professionalism... BUT what you say in your meeting will depend on what you want as an outcome. DO you want her pnished or do you want the original issue fixed?

Trust me, there is nothing much more you can do/have done to her than she is already puting hersewlf through, so assuming the latter I would ask her why she was less than sympathetic with the initial issue, find out why it hasn't been resolved to your satisfaction.

Also remember you are furious that they are bad mouting you and your sone... but here you are opening them up to far more public, if anonymou, badmouthing! Everyone does it. Often it is entirely justified, sometimes it is just venting! Mostly it is just 2 people with entirely different perspectives on a happening.

Good luck getting it all sorted.

I agree focus on original issue.

However, I would still mention the email, it is clearly unprofessional and of course you are owed an apology. Also they need to learn that you never put anything negative in an email!

I am always surprised at the number of MNers who think children (he's 17 by the way, not a child) should be well behaved little clones who never express an opinion. A good teacher should expect their sixth formers to be challenging them (politely).

well, he's certainly right there! I'd be kicking up a bloody massive fuss about that, tbh.

Surely we all know in this day and age that you don't put anything in an e-mail that you wouldn't say publicly. Anyone saying they have done or would do the same is foolish. Unless you're quite content to be held to account for it, possibly in a disciplinary hearing, you keep it to yourself. A milder version might be muttered behind closed doors or over the phone.

Surely we all know in this day and age that you don't put anything in an e-mail that you wouldn't say publicly. Abso- bloody-lutely! And that is the thing I suspect the school will take from this. It is totally unreasonable to expect that any teacher, let alone HoPC not to have a moan about pupils and parents. But in no way unreasonable to expect them to be far more circumspect about how they do it!

I agree with Weeping and Wolfie. Of course the email should not have been sent, but your son sounds as if he is a pain in the arse. According to you he is opinionated, annoying, and keen to make teachers ' look stupid'. If you, his DM, thinks that, hardly surprising his teachers think the same.

It’s completely unacceptable and the teacher should be in trouble, yes. BUT it does really hold up a mirror to how your son is perceived, which you would do well to look at. I don’t think your description of him making teachers look stupid ties in with you worthy example of him standing up for women’s rights. There will be more to his behaviour.

Pastoral care WTF unbelievable 🤦‍♀️

((Hug)) OP 🌻🌺🌻

You can make them feel 100 times shitter if you're as nice as pie and ever so obliging. Makes whoever wrote the comment look even more like a ruddy idiot as well.

You’ve received some good advice here and the head of pastoral care sounds appalling. Just as an aside, are they actually a teacher? I know in some schools (probably as a cheapo option) pastoral roles are given to non teaching staff. Now don’t get me wrong- I’m not saying all qualified teachers are perfect and non- professionals aren’t. BUT there is a difference. I’ve seen some really sloppy unprofessional behaviour from staff who’ve ended up in these sorts of roles.

My other point is that although what’s happened is completely unacceptable, you need to be wary of justifying what could be annoying and distractible behaviour from your son. do you know exactly what the head of 6th form said about uniform? There’s clearly a dress code for the girls and clearly they aren’t sticking to it. Wearing ridiculously short skirts looks bad, it wouldn’t be acceptable office wear. I’ve seen many 6th form girls wear skirts so short you can see their knickers. If the head of 6th made a comment about it being distracting to Male staff that’s completely out of order as it insinuates that they somehow can’t control themselves. Even then though it’s not really your son’s place to take up teaching time getting involved. On the other hand I’ve worked in schools where 6th form girls are flashing their kickers and cleavage (completely against the dress code) and it is a distraction to the younger boys. At 11 years old they don’t need that sort of distraction and they haven’t got the maturity to cope with it. So it sounds as though your son is getting on his high horse over things that he perhaps doesn’t need to, and is taking up teaching time with his ‘warrior’ attitude.

But on your main point I completely agree: the head of pastoral has fucked up majorly and deserves a disciplinary

Whoops. What a stupid mistake from them.

I would actually do some soul searching before the meeting. Two teachers have negative thoughts about you and your ds. I would try to work out why that is. (It may well be that they're both arseholes, but id be giving it a lot of thought as to why they reached their conclusions).

Have you told your son about the email?

I too would mention the email as it shows a clear bias towards you and your son.

Hopefully that bias was just letting off steam but we don't actually know that the person who sent it is mortified at all.

I once received something similar. I replied to simply say 'I guess this wasn't meant for me'. The person came to me and apologised but with a 'but'....she proved she hadn't changed her views. I complained. It's this attitude that she has demonstrated to your son that needs addressing if she is a position of influence and power of him. This needs exploring at the meeting in a 'how can we do this differently next time then' kind of way.

Was the email sent today? Has somebody played an evil April Fool on you and sent the email from a Gmail address that looks similar to the school email address?

I don't think my DS is keen to make a teacher look stupid - just for the record. I have said to him that if his challenge is going to make a teacher look stupid, then he might be better raising it one on one - not doing it in front of the class. There is a massive distinction there.

He's a good pupil and is involved with the school. He's not just being surly and sitting from the sidelines taking pot shots. I'm trying to work out why the head of 6th seems to dislike him so much and I'm thinking that they might think he is a bit annoying because he is opinionated.

He isn't disruptive, he doesn't get bad reports and if we are saying that opinions are bad and pupils shouldn't have them in school - I feel really depressed.

I too would mention the email as it shows a clear bias towards you and your son. Why bias? It's an opinion based on extant interaction not a prejudice.

Without knowing hat he original issue was (and no, I am not asking) it is impossible to make any value judgement on the sentiment contained within that truly ill considered email!

I weep for the fact that a bunch of presumably women, and mums feel it right to call a young man who raises his voice in support of young women and against entrenched sexism is called "a pain in the arse".
Your son sounds delightful OP and more power to him!
Shame on these older men (presumably) who're giving him a hard time for it!

acciocat the school skirt thing was a massive deal, with loads of kicking off, so I'm pretty sure about it. It wasn't just DS that took umbrage. The school has a really strict uniform code for 6th formers and they lined the girls up and measured the girls skirts with rulers, which there was huge objection to - it all kicked off. DS was gob-smacked about the suggestion that girls need to dress with men in mind and did raise that. A contingent of 6th formers raised it all with the Head of 6th form, it wasn't him on his own.

Astounded I didn't say, or think, any of that - hence the nature of the beast comment. That you repeat that he is likely to say something that 'would make the teacher look stupid is making my point.

'm trying to work out why the head of 6th seems to dislike him so much and I'm thinking that they might think he is a bit annoying because he is opinionated. Most teachers are used to challenges, strongly held opinions, especially in 16+ pupils. That is part of their finding out who they are. Nobody would squash that. WHy don't you just ask the HT what oit is your DS has dne that has irritated members of staff?

The school has a really strict uniform code for 6th formers and they lined the girls up and measured the girls skirts with rulers,

That may tempermy thoughts, that's tupid and I would probably have been stood at your DSs side!

@CuriousaboutSamphire - okay I'll rephrase. The email would concern me as it shows there may be a bias against your son. One they are very comfortable to effectively gossip about.

Good god I love it when students have opinions! But there’s a huge difference between a student who voices their opinion at the appropriate time and place, in an intelligent way, and those who don’t.

If a contingent voiced their opinions in a reasoned way, why would your ds be singled out as being a pain?

I repeat: I am not defending the Pastoral person’s email- they have screwed up. But I bet there’s more to this than meets the eye. IME parents who defend their kids as ‘feisty’ or ‘after justice’ or whatever are often glossing over the fact they’re just bloody annoying