AIBU to think teacher and possibly school way out of line and WWYD?

[AstoundedandConfounded]

Name changed in case I somehow out myself!

I was mistakenly sent an email by a teacher from DS's school, which said about me "Don't you just wish you could tell her to piss off. It's clear where DS gets it from."

Just to clarify DS is in 6th form and I've emailed the school 3 times in his 6 years, so I'm not an annoying helicopter mother.

I am not happy about any of this, to say the least. I've been in touch with the head, shared the email and said I want to discuss it and received an apology back.

I have a meeting set up for this Thursday and am struggling to know how best to handle it. The issue I originally emailed in about was handled so badly that I think that is still my priority but I'm really hacked off that teachers are bad mouthing me and my DS (who is a good pupil) in emails.

WWYD?

😲

🙃🙁🙃🙁🙃🙁 Pastoral Heads, head rolling!

WTAF a Fuck Muppet to put that in an email!!

It’s REALLY bad coming from the PH. Far worse than from a teacher.

I think your DS sounds like he could either be great or the biggest PITA 😂. If he’s honestly just vocal about boys & men not being able to control themselves around a pair of legs type thing, I think he’s great. If he’s outspoken about racism, disability, discrimination of any kind, then good on him, BUT if he’s constantly picking up on minor errors made by the teachers (like missing a word in a sentence or correcting them when they say it’s 3pm and him pointing out it’s actually 2:58 etc) then he needs telling, and firmly. Which is it?!

I would love to know what the Head of Pastoral Care thinks about shaming the girls and blaming them for boys' potential bad behaviour.

Do you know what, I couldn't bring myself to care about this bloody email if a situation like this is happening in the school. I would rain hellfire and brimstone down on them, the governors and anyone else involved.

The email would concern me as it shows there may be a bias against your son. One they are very comfortable to effectively gossip about. I was tryng to explain that the HoPC may only have 1 or 2 peope she can talk more freely to, HoD would be one of them. Which means that this wasn't gossip, as in spoken out loud for all to hear and without basis.

Trust me, even the most high achieving student can get under you skin when they go off on a crusade. Having someone wyou don't have to watch your Ps and Qs with can be a great relief at the end of a frstrating day.

I would never ever, blame a teacher for saying such things, we all need to vent. But I do, and have said here a few times, committing it to email is just stupid!

I believe it is the former and not the latter IncrediblySadToo. To be honest I'd never thought about it until I got the email by mistake.

Most of his teachers seem to like him and he gets really positive reports. At parents evening last month, I didn't get any hints or vibes that he was a 'pain in the arse'.

I think also that you should use this meeting to get a solution to your original problem.

However, this email is making you wonder why some staff at the school seem to have a problem with your son, perhaps actively dislike him (and you)? I don't know if this is something you want to deal with now, at a later time or simply accept that we don't all like each other equally. My DC went to a secondary school where a couple of the Deputy Heads were very involved with the rugby team and definitely favoured those pupils. I don't think it dawned on the adults that they disadvantaged other pupils who didn't play rugby. Also, teachers often 'like' young people who are good at their subject.

We are naturally proud if our DC speak out about injustice. The comments about skirt lengths at your DS school are another example of unprofessional/inappropriate behaviour (if accurately reported by him). Schools can have a Dress/Uniform Code which regulates skirt length, teachers can talk about this but they should NOT say girls are responsible for boy's behaviour however they dress.

He was spot on right about the skirts issue, and it's really, really encouraging to hear a 17 year old boy stood with the girls on this one, too. Frankly, it sounds like you're raising him well.

Hope this gets sorted for you. It's not appropriate at all, and apart from anything else the fact senior leadership don't realise online communication should be professional at all times is a tad worrying in itself. It's 2019. The internet is no longer in its infancy.

Crabbyandproudofit, you are right, I am wondering. It is a really strongly CofE school and we are not religious, so I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it. I'm also a single mum, which again might not feel comfortable for some staff?! (Again, I think DS may be a bit defensive about that sometimes.)

The Head of 6th and Head of Pastoral Care would be more 'old guard' as far as I can tell. I'm just guessing though and I'm not sure I'll get the right answer.

I wouldn't want an apology because it's like making a toddler apologise when they do something wrong, they aren't going to change their opinion so it's just meaningless repetition.

What I would absolutely demand to get to the bottom of is what their problem is with both DS and you, and why they think your original issue is one that you shouldn't be complaining about.

I bet the HoPC's stomach went through the floor when they realised who they'd sent that to!

Also, my DS was very, very good academically but not at all sporty and at 17 was probably a bit gobby (although could also be very polite and thoughtful). He was actually vetoed as Head Boy by some teachers (all staff were asked to nominate candidates but allowed to veto, although that was virtually unheard of). Being contrary, he took more pride in the vetoes than the nominations.

I wouldn't want an apology because it's like making a toddler apologise when they do something wrong, they aren't going to change their opinion so it's just meaningless repetition.

This is a very valid point. They’ll still be thinking it, so an apology is worthless. I’d say that to them if they apologise again too; they’ll know it’s true and it’ll make them squirm as they deserve to.

Then just go ion all matter of fact.

"There os obviously an issue underlying this email. I am assuming it has to do with XXX incident. Could we please speak honestly, get to the bottom of this right now? I don't want to have this hanging over us ALL until DS leaves school"

Don't let any emotionin, just be clinical, focussed on the root cause and trhen solution to the issue.

That will have a couple of good effects:

You won't get hung up on the peronal issues

They won't be able to wriggle out from under, distract you woth emotional detours

They will be waiting for you to mention the email directly, that will leave them on the back foot. If they bring it up just be brusque That is largely irrelevent to me, an internal issue I would have thought. I just want to get to the root cause of all of this unpleasantness and find a solution

‘He's a bit opinionated in a justice warrior kind of way and I think he is probably a bit annoying sometimes as he challenges some of the teachers. I have said to him that if he has a point that may make a teacher look stupid, he should raise it separately rather than in front of the whole class. However, he is only 17 and has a lot to learn!’

Unless you’re doing some serious back pedalling then what you wrote here speaks volumes. Teachers tend to like students who challenge things, provided they do it in an intelligent way. It makes the job more interesting.

However, the fact you mention he raises things which make the teacher look stupid implies there’s more to this than meets the eye. I would hazard a guess he has a habit of sticking his two pence worth in, picking teachers up over things and wanting to be subversive.

Finally, of course all teachers talk about kids and parents who are a pain in the arse. In the privacy of the staff room, definitely NOT in email. But believe me there are enough genuine problem students and unreasonable parents that in this day and age I doubt many staff would waste their breath or invest the energy in slagging off a student or parent who wasn’t a problem. That’s my honest opinion. Some of the things I’ve seen in my teaching career are really horrendous- nightmare students and nightmare parents. I really think Staff would not be interested in turning against your son unless there was reason to.

Sorry, my hands are cold, spelling seems to have hit the dirt

I'd have been furious about the skirt thing too. Women have not been put on this earth the control men's behaviour. Men need to challenge this crap too.

I like the sound of your DS! Well done him on pushing back on the skirt length issue

I agree that the email should not have been sent but the bigger issue seems to be that your ds is disruptive and you don't appear to want to accept this, OP.

"He's a bit opinionated....he challenges some of the teachers". Yeah, we know what that means. . If I had a penny for every parent who had said that about their arrogant, immature and disruptive teenager.....

Think I would be putting in a SAR in your son's name and yours to see exactly what else has been written about you and your son. You might also get to the bottom of why the original issue has not been sorted.

Really? Without going to the meeting and simply asking?

Shit like that just reinforces the reasons why I left teaching!

I’m a teacher albeit in a college and this is so unprofessional. We do complain about troublesome students to colleagues of course (we’re only human!) but we’d never write it in an email. Emails are purely for professional purposes, not to gossip to one another.

I suspect she will receive a warning and rightly so. Also strongly suspect she will walk around red faced for a while... Sorry this happened to you, your DS sounds great.

Could we please speak honestly, get to the bottom of this right now?

Yeah i really wouldn't bother trying this. The bottom of the problem was at that moment in time someone found you and your child a pain in the arse and instead of keeping that to themselves sent it in a inappropriate email.

Personally i wouldn't bother with it anymore than written apology containing an aknowledgement that the email was wrong. Keep it to solutions, move the problem forward, you dont achieve anything by rehashing stuff.

Yeah i really wouldn't bother trying this... Personally i wouldn't bother with it anymore That was the point. Get to the root of the original issue - Incident XX - not the bloody email!

simply accept that we don't all like each other equally

Of course teachers can't like everyone. But professionalism requires that they hide their dislike.

And you never put rude comments in emails! Have these people not heard of data protection legislation and subject access requests?

I think I would like clarification on what the person meant by "Its clear thats where DS gets it from .." What do they mean by "it".. that needs spelling out.
These are people who will be writing your son's UCAS references.
You don't have access to these, but I think I would get advice about whether you can get an independent person who can read it and confirm that they are not writing predjudicial things about him.. as I think their comments are very unprofessional and I'd be seeking assurance that this wouldnt spill over into his references.. or on any official reports. However I recognise that this is exactly the kind of thing to make them close ranks.
I would also say that the fact this comes from head of pastoral care does raise doubts about how much un predjudiced pastoral care he is getting.

Teachers tend to like students who challenge things, provided they do it in an intelligent way. It makes the job more interesting

Most do. Some don't because they feel it challenges their authority. Lots of MNers would clearly agree with them.

But usually there is a good relationship at sixth form level precisely because they are not treated like annoying teenagers but young adults.

Really helpful, thank you all for your input

I would hope that if DS had been disruptive, I'd have heard about it in the last 6 and a half years at senior school. I can't believe that would have slipped under the radar for that long. If nothing else, I think his sister would have told me, as was never one to hold back on school gossip!

However, I'm happy for them to have the Head to tell me, if that is the case.

The school is incredibly protective of its image and pupils are endlessly warned about sharing images of themselves in uniform or of the school on social media that might bring the reputation of the school into disrepute, so the irony of this is not lost on me entirely