My mum lives with me but acts like a guest

[lookybooky]

My father passed away 4 years ago and my mum (early 60's) was so distraught that I invited her to move in with my family. We didn't have a spare room so she gave us £80k to build an extension (she has the 2 rooms that we built). At the time she said it was all she could spare but that was fine as it was enough for the 2 storey extension which includes a bathroom and kitchenette. She also pays £150 p/m towards bills. She doesn't babysit or do any housework or gardening but she was a bit miserable for the first year so I didn't expect any help. But we're in year 4 now and all she does is watch TV and go shopping or meet friends. Again, I could probably deal with that but I've just found out that she gave my brother almost exactly the same amount of money (only £10k less) at the same time as she gave me. AIBU that she's living like a guest in my home while he gets to do whatever he wants with the money (he's invested it into property I believe)? I've pointed out that I feel it's unfair but she said it's her own business and if I'm unhappy, I should return the £80k and she'll get a retirement flat. She won't move in with my bro as she hates his wife!

Let it go. She's your mum! Be grateful to have her.

She could pay for any increase in bills for the annex by taking a percentage of the rent that DS makes in his property investment.

@lookybooky She could be with you for another 30 years or so. Are you prepared for that?

(Personally I couldn’t handle my dm for more than 2 nights, so good on you. However she was a brilliant babysitter and they loved staying there when they were little, so she has at least one good trait)

The problem is, I think you both thought when you made this arrangement that she'd be consumed with grief forever, and so it was done as if the immediate situation was permanent. It wasn't, and you both need to admit that to each other (which I know may be very hard)

Carpet I’m not sure OP can afford to let it go...her household bills are £2k pm partly because her mum is whacking the heating up all day whilst they are at work

I appreciate your dilemma OP and would be annoyed too. Often seems in cases like this it's the female sibling who takes -,or is given - responsibility for a parent. Unfair that your brother had the same money and no responsibility. Put your foot down re the parenting and work out your costs properly - £150 a month seems very low particularly as she uses your kitchen, does not clean up there, and expects you to drive her around.

It's totally unreasonable for her to ask for the 80K back. What she should get back is 10k: the difference between what she gave you vs your brother.

So your mum gave you both a lump sum. You both invested in property. He has a tenant paying market rent, you have a long term cheap-as-chips lodger.

I’d be pissed off too.

Let it go. She's your mum! Be grateful to have her

Yawn. You live with my DM for a few years and see how grateful you feel .

Another option if you don't want to involve your brother and you do want her to move out, would be to work out how much she would have had to pay in rent for 4 years in a similar size flat in your area and deduct that from the 80k, remortgage and give her back that amount. It is probably not going to improve your relationship though.

Also, I guess it is kind of upsetting for OP if she has a mother living in her home (no escape) who makes it so clear she does not want to help out a great deal. I don't know that OP has asked for lots of help to be honest. Sometimes it just about an attitude that makes the difference.

OP what would happen if your Mum could no longer stay with you and your DB wouldn't have her?

Was this money she gave to you and him all the money she has or would she be able to get another place?

To me, I think the sensible thing to do would be give her the £10k and then she's given you and your brother the same amount. However I would think twice if all she would be left with is £10k and unable to get somewhere else.

OP, YABU for expecting a free housekeeper when the kids are small. She's your mother, not a servant.

But DM is BU for expecting free round the clock care for her old age, which will probably last well over 20 years. You're her daughter, not a team of four carers.

Anyone who wants to swap childcare for eldercare is pulling a fast one on you.

Bear in mind that old age lasts a hell of a lot longer than childhood does now, and the dependent stage is a lot more technically difficult, expensive and unrewarding.

The world is set up to take dependent children off you for hours a day - schools, afterschool clubs, playgrounds, etc. All this is free, or nearly.

After a few years, children stop being so dependent.

During this time, women get maternity allowances then go back to work.

The dependent old are dependent 24/7. There is precious little in the way of resources or breaks for the carer, and what there is will always be expensive.

After a few years, the old get more dependent.

During this time, women get 0 allowances and cannot return to work.

Its interesting that she wants you to help her out but she won't help you out. Either you help each other or you don't. Next time she wants to go to a hospital appointment tell her you're busy and to get a taxi. I wonder if she will want your assistance if her health deteriorates? Im guessing probably

I don't respond well to threats so l would call her bluff, look into re-mortgaging and get her out. Like my mother she's probably forgotten what things cost 😂. The heating thing alone would drive me crazy. She needs to butt out of your child rearing, your children = yours and your husbands rules. Your mother wants everything her way

I don't think she would move into bro's flat. It's not got a lift (3rd floor) and rent must be at least £500 p/m without bills. Not ideal if you're retired. He's never really offered as far as I know. I just don't think it's crossed his mind tbh.
Going to try and have one good (hopefully emotion-free) chat with her about bills and to stop judging my parenting (today it was that I was neglectful for letting my 3yo DS play in our garden alone because she thought a fox could attack him). If that kind of stuff can stop then I'll feel less resentful and perhaps not keep thinking about my bro's money.

Smart move OP, but don't dodge the main issue - this is only going to get worse.

Talk to Dbro about what is to be done with Mum in her dotage. You can bet your bottom dollar it hasn't occurred to him. She's 62. It is convenient to them both for you to take 100 per cent of the strain and 0 of the profit. But that won't happen, because you approach the situation as a joint effort - ie everyone - DM and DBro - share the responsibility.

It's not got a lift (3rd floor) and rent must be at least £500 p/m without bills. Not ideal if you're retired

Well, she wouldn't have to pay rent, would she - she doesn't at yours?

Honestly OP nothing you have said about living with her is irresolvable. They are the usual niggles of people living together who have slightly different expectations.

I think the real issue is that you had a difficult childhood. When your dad died, in the aftermath of grief, she leaned on you. You thought this meant you could become closer and have a very different close relationship. So you offered that she could move in.

Except that magic change to your relationship has not happened. She has not transformed into a doting GM who wants to spend all her time with the GC. Instead she is going out with friends and enjoying herself.

The advice is always not to make big decisions in the aftermath of a bereavement for very good reasons. And it is common for adults who had a difficult childhood to try and create a close relationship with their parent as an adult and make things much better - although again that rarely works.

I think you need first to be honest and acknowledge the background to all of this. Because all this emotional stuff under the surface means that it is not just about practical things such as how much she contributes to bills. All these things will be infused with complicated emotions, and so they will appear as much bigger issues than they otherwise would.

I also wonder if growing up your DB was treated better than you were, and so this just seems like another example of this?

Nothing to say that hasn't already been said - just wanted to say hang in there OP, and I agree with the PP who says you've got to do something (rather than do nothing) about the situation if this is the way you feel.

rent must be at least £500 p/m without bills

What does that have to do with anything? She doesn’t pay you rent, why should she pay him rent?

She’s only 60, not in her dotage. She CANNOT have this all her way for the next 30 years.

‘A fox might get him’. SEE, I have NO tolerance for absolute fucking stupidity & I’d just tell her straight not to be so utterly bloody ridiculous.

She won’t even help you out with the DC if you get caught in traffic or whatever, but already she expects you to be running HER around. It’s only going to get worse. I REALLY think you need to look at speaking to your brother and both of you giving her the money back so she can buy a place of her own.

I think it's perfectly fair to give your DB money when she's given you money which you say has added 90k in value to your home. How would you have felt if she'd paid for an extension to his home and not given you anything?

She is a member of a household with small children

But is she? Or in her eyes does she live next to a household with small children?

If she's not living in your house why do you expect her to pay a third of the bills?
She's living separately and the share of bills needs to reflect that. The council tax for the extension for instance is surely lower than a third of your bill. It seems you're expecting her to cover some of the costs you and your DH incur by having children.
I think you have to delineate the kitchen more clearly - she has hers, you have yours.

I agree it would be helpful if she could cover some of the childcare occasionally but she's already giving them breakfast (and this may be contributing to the kitchen confusion). Do you remember to thank her for this?

Grandparents always have opinions. Some are better than others at keeping them to themselves. Tell her you appreciate her concern and carry on as you were.

I suppose I could end up in your mother's situation in which case I would want to live separately but would be a bigger part of your children's lives - we provide full time childcare for our daughter because we want to. I don't see it as a chore. But my husband does - he loves her and is happy to help but finds it hard work. I work full time but in school holidays and weekends I find grannying a joy.

However, as a daughter who no longer has her mother, I can't help but think you'll regret thinking like this when you have your house (and her bit) back to yourself but no mum.

I try really hard to be non judgemental about the way my daughter parents because we do disagree about a lot of things. Generally though we come to arrangements. In the case of parenting, we do things her way unless I really disagree and we compromise. For example, in my house, granddaughter only drinks milk or water unless it's a treat. I won't use babywipes. No screens or TV until evenings. But routines, meal times etc we do what little one is used to. If we lived as OP, I think we'd be the same.

I wonder if OP's mum is trying to do her best but doesn't realise she's getting it wrong?

I’m sorry but the fox thing made me laugh 😂.

He's never really offered as far as I know. I just don't think it's crossed his mind tbh.

^^

But it's OK for her to live with you? Why?

As a pp said, an 80 grand flat, with all utilities paid for the next 30 years is a sweet deal. I'd be wanting some babysitting tbh.

Does she cook for the family?

She isn't really an equal member of a household with kids. In that situation all adults have a say in how the kids are raised. She has no say at all. So she is someone living there who helps out by giving the kids their breakfast.

I am disabled and have the heating high at times. £150pm would easily cover the costs of 2 rooms in these circumstances. Is the heating going on for the whole house? Because if yes, it needs to be changed so it is only her rooms.

Also helping with the garden. I hate gardening. I sit in the garden, but if I lived in your extension I would want to do the amount of gardening I currently do, which is practically none. If your garden needs more than say mowing the lawn, then that is a choice you have made. She had no say in it.

Are you asking her to pick the kids up regularly because your bus is late? If it is very occasional - say 4 times a year - then she is unreasonable. But if it is regular I can understand her annoyance.