My mum lives with me but acts like a guest

[lookybooky]

My father passed away 4 years ago and my mum (early 60's) was so distraught that I invited her to move in with my family. We didn't have a spare room so she gave us £80k to build an extension (she has the 2 rooms that we built). At the time she said it was all she could spare but that was fine as it was enough for the 2 storey extension which includes a bathroom and kitchenette. She also pays £150 p/m towards bills. She doesn't babysit or do any housework or gardening but she was a bit miserable for the first year so I didn't expect any help. But we're in year 4 now and all she does is watch TV and go shopping or meet friends. Again, I could probably deal with that but I've just found out that she gave my brother almost exactly the same amount of money (only £10k less) at the same time as she gave me. AIBU that she's living like a guest in my home while he gets to do whatever he wants with the money (he's invested it into property I believe)? I've pointed out that I feel it's unfair but she said it's her own business and if I'm unhappy, I should return the £80k and she'll get a retirement flat. She won't move in with my bro as she hates his wife!

@Ellyess
Elle, that is a really kind post and well needed.

Ellyess I'm welling up at your kindness. Thank you, your perspective is really appreciated, Elle. Sorry to hear that you had to deal with so much while still so young.

SchadenfreudePersonified and OfftoBedhampton Thanks for the sympathy and great summaries of situation (original post seems so far behind).
There's obviously no one totally morally correct answer but I'm not feeling quite so torn, having read that the situation would make many others frustrated too. Remortgaging just isn't an option, unfortunately so if it did come down to returning the £80k, it would mean selling and I think the thought of that is partly stressing me out too (I hate moving!!)

SchadenfreudePersonified. That is brilliant! I actually suspect that the mother/granny may have been a spoilt child. She does appear to behave a bit Narcissistically. I can't imagine being so unkind to my adult children. It is just horrible what she does and says to the OP, her daughter! I have met people like her though and they are bullies. She may have bullied her late husband. She is someone, I suspect, who is used to getting her own way. I even have a little suspicion about her, after the loss of her husband showing her daughter she was "so distraught" in order to achieve what the OP tells us "that I invited her to move in with my family." Not many Grannies who aren't that keen on children would be in such a rush to move in with them. I think it was a manipulation. You are so right about children who had poor relationships with parents trying so hard to show them that they are good people all their lives. I did it myself actually with my own mother, who, of course, took great advantage of it.

I feel so sorry for the OP. I do hope she will be able to show her mother that this is her home and that people behave the way she says in it or they are not welcome.

@lookybooky
You don't have to sell up and move. You can relax and don't stress, as your Mother is simply misinformed in what she states to you. Just because someone says something vehemently, it doesn't make them legally right.

I'm so grateful to schaden and ellyess for counteracting negative posts of PPs that haven't fully RTFT nor understood legal situ. And they've included such kindness, that is more reflective of your upsetting situation, intentions and efforts so far. I remain ever hopeful that a chat will help you - even if you have to open your laptop looking up housing register & suggest she puts her name down for a sheltered property if she's so unhappy at yours 😉 - you'll watch her backtrack sharpish! She can use the annex when she visits for Xmas and Easter for the next umpteen years, so it's not wasted. 😁

OffToBedhampton. How kind of you! Thank you.

lookybooky. Thank you! Please

• no paying back a gift.

• No paying back £80K when DB holds on to £70K
• No paying back at all of the money! But if necessary call her bluff (it is a bluff) and tell her, "No, it is £10K minus the appropriate rent for the last 4 years."

Please try not to feel worried. She has conditioned you all your life that she is right and can get her own way. Now you are in charge. You are the Mum in this house! Try and keep calm and remember she has no hold over you! No hold at all! Do not be dragged into any of her arguments or blackmails. Use the broken record technique; "The money was a gift. It is not returnable. If it comes to it I can consider paying you back the £10k minus the rent for the last 4 years." and do not say anything else. talk in a flat calm slightly bored sounding voice.

Please do not worry. She cannot take this money back! Your home is safe!

If she gave the money as a straight donation towards extending your property she has treated you the same. You will reap the benefits having invested the money in your house. If there are conditions eg you had to give her a proportionate share in the title to your house that is a totally different game. In the first i stance she is paying her way, just like a lodger. Would you ask or expect a lodger to help with housework or babysit? If she has a percentage claim on the property basically being a get a share if the property is sold then yes, she should be helping maintain the household to a certain extent. Perhaps you have come to view her as live in help.

This is a tough one. I would to myself measure it as - was she a good and loving mother and how would you feel if anything happened to her, would you miss her like crazy and it would be painful or would you just miss her out of duty and use to her being there. You'll be amased how many people don't care a huge amount for their parent out of duty and use to them being around cos they weren't exactly great or remotely good parents! Just bare with me, I'm getting there. However, if she was a loving mother and you'll miss her like crazy then perhaps you should not ruin your relationship over the fact that your brother was able to do what he wanted with his money whilst you used yours for the extension. Because you would hate yourself if your relationship degenerated because of the knowledge you didn't have a choice whilst bro did. However, you could just nicely make her aware of how you feel about it AND, yes AND when she threatens to take back the 80K, tell her you would not be able to do that as where would you get that cash from - unless you have a well-paid job! In which case if you do have a well paid job and you can afford the £2K per month then perhaps think about the bigger picture and leave her paying the £150 pm. If austerity is moving closer in then you might then have a chat and ask if she could help out a little bit more say an extra £50-£100 pm which is quite a lot considering she's your mum (if she was a loving mum of course). Maybe she feels she's done her stint and doesn't want much to do with helping out with the kids anymore. Maybe she's not as fit as you think she is hence she doesn't do a whole lot more. Maybe she's experiencing freedom for a long time in her life. I do agree with you in that why she can't see the unfairness of her offering - it wasn't strictly for you per se it was to build something for her whilst your bro it was money in his hand for him to do as he pleases. Strange how she doesn't see that - however, I would get it off your mind to her in no mixing or mincing words but nicely and clearly, no confusion. Also make her understand that you wouldn't be able to get your hand on that sort of cash and didn't she give it to you in the same way your bro, otherwise why did she not give it to you to do as you please and why would she want it back as if you are more obliged to help than your bro. After that, then you might have to consider the bigger picture. Is your mum worth it and you can suck it up cos is it really worth having a rubbish relationship or a constant bitter taste hanging over. So you'll have to consider to be the bigger and nicer, kinder person and forgive and forget out of love cos she was a loving mother or most likely the inevitable bust-up could happen and your bro is still good with mum. You have to consider to yourself what your mother deeply means to you. If this was me and it was reversed and it was my son inconveniencing me - I would probably suck up a lot cos I love him too much and wouldn't want to see him suffer and would help him as best I can. Not to the point that he's useless but so he can land on his feet but still point out to him clearly how I feel if I felt anyway BUT that I love him dearly but this is how I feel cos it's right and he needs to appreciate it - that sort of stuff. Best of luck, interested to see how things go. Be very careful that wifey isn't also behind your bad feelings cos remember, it is your mother and not hers so she may feel more hard done by than you - rightly so though cos she didn't marry your mother, she married you. So don't dismiss your wife's opinion for heaven sake. But if you choose to forgive and forget after getting it all out ask your wife to come on board so you don't have this bitterness hanging and you can live with a smile and get back to normal. You might have to pet her up a bit as she is right in her feelings if any!!

I think the financial things previous posters have pointed out are totally right - you do NOT need to return the £80K gift. And you DO need to sort out your living situation.

I think the money stuff has to be thought of in context of the emotional side - to me, wouldn't matter who was living there, if I was in a household and a parent couldn't get to the dc pickup point in time I would offer to do it, especially if I was getting lifts, access to a big kitchen, whatever else.
That is just part of the logistical and emotional side of living together - a bit of mutual cooperation and support for the household as a whole. IMO if that side isn't working, living together isn't working, simply because it is hurtful if you have a need and the person who is present and part of the household sees that and can't be bothered (unless all one way, CFs etc but that is not the case here). And there is a big emotional backdrop too.
OP - probably worth having the conversations. I predict they won't go well. In which case you may want to consider selling, buying another property that does not include her, and moving. Or simply asking her to leave, saying this does not work for you - she isn't unwell and doesn't have a need for care as she is fit and well, but your DC do. So you must focus on them and providing a loving, safe, financially secure and low-conflict childhood for them and this is not working for you.

This isn't going to end well. If I were you I'd discuss remortgaging the house and giving her the 80k back so she can buy something for herself. I can't see how this will get better rather than worse.

OP please do not look to return the £80k. From what you have said she seems to enjoy asking for the money back, knowing full well you are in no position to do so. I would ask her to look for somewhere else to live. Otherwise it’s going to wear you down until you can think of nothing else and will destroy what’s left of your relationship with your brother. I do think it’s poor that she frequently accepts lifts from you but will complain at picking your children up from school a couple of times in a number of years. It’s got to work both ways.
It may feel mean asking her to leave, but given all you have said about your own childhood and her past behaviour in regards to money - the interest she accepted from the deposit being one - I wouldnt beat yourself up over it.

Can you print off some property details for bungalows or flats in your area and show her what her 80k could get her? Could you have a look for a different house that doesn't have the ability to be extended so she will have to stand on her own two feet now?
Could you approach the discussion that you were there for her for the first two years while she was in mourning and you were too but now she has a network of friends in her own right so she should be considering looking to be more self sufficient (in all respects - food/laundry/heating etc.) so this would be something that would be for her benefit too? But I would definitely consider looking at suitable houses in your area/locale so that if she says "Right so, I'm off and I'll want my money back" you could come back with "Fine then, so long as DB gives you back his 'gift' too and then we can start again from scratch".

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do and however you go about having the conversation that really needs to be had.

No, a gift is a gift, and it's good evidence that this was actually a gift, because DB got a large sum at the same time (also a gift and he's not expected to pay it back). OP has already said she can't afford to remortgage anyway.

We had my dsf live in an annex on the side of our house until he died aged 91. He chipped in £300 pm towards running costs and did his own food shop, but he did have his own kitchen. Luckily he didn't criticize or interfere. It worked out quite well. Luckily.

By using the main kitchen and not cleaning it she is sending you the message that she is the head of the household, the matriarch and you are beneath Her, there to serve her and clean up after her
in her mind she is the head honcho and she does not have to be accountable to anyone

You are good person considering what you have gone through not having a happy childhood. You took your mum in with good intentions and all this is for the long term not few years if ever your mum required any support or care she had you close by. Take some time out try to gather your thoughts and when you feel the time is right sit down and talk calmly. It is known when it comes to money inheritance this all can cause many upsets, fallouts but the most important thing is you need to look after your health and your family are number 1. I wish you well and hope things get better for you. For you 🌹

Did your brother have to pay tax on his gift? As your mother lives in your house I do not think you would be liable to pay tax but check what tax is payable.

How many kids do you have? You should divide all the bills and Council Tax by the number of people living in the house and what that comes to she should pay her share. £150 a month I think is derisory, even more so if it includes her food as well. She is too young to have a life of leisure and if it is allowed to continue you will have a lot of difficulties with relationships in the future. It would have been better for her to learn independence immediately. It was not a wise choice for you to make and you have to make things run smoothly. The only way to do that is to seek counselling for both of you.

I think its reasonable to ask for more money per month. I say £200 & tell her you want her to do more around the house as she uses your home too.

Giving away a home before you die
There’s normally no Inheritance Tax to pay if you move out and live for another 7 years.

If you want to continue living in your property after giving it away, you’ll need to:

pay rent to the new owner at the going rate (for similar local rental properties)
pay your share of the bills
live there for at least 7 years
You do not have to pay rent to the new owners if both the following apply:

you only give away part of your property
the new owners also live at the property
If you die within 7 years
If you die within 7 years of giving away all or part of your property, your home will be treated as a gift and the 7 year rule applies.

Call the Inheritance Tax and probate helpline if you have questions about giving away a home. They cannot give you advice on how to pay less tax.

I think just tell her that bills have gone up and you will now need x amount. Don't try and deal with any other issue at the same time. This in theory should be emotion free. (Although probably won't be). If she complains, say that's just how much things cost. Try not to get drawn into other conflicts for now. Reassess those later.

What your mum has done is given a Personal Equity Transfer to both you and your brother out of her assets. It will fall within her estate if she dies within 7 years of gifting it and may be liable to inheritance tax depending on the size of her estate. The gift with reservation thing is a red herring and is more for people who put their homes in their children's names and then continue to live in it. In your case your mum has moved into your house. The fact she sold hers to give the gift is not relevant.

Now to the crux of your issue I had friends who did exactly as you did. The MIL died and within a few months our friends had moved the FIL into a house with an integral granny flat (self contained but also part of the main family house). The relationship with FIL before MIL died was problematic but became so much worse when he moved in with them. It almost broke their marriage, drove my friend to a nervous breakdown and they would both stay at work as long as possible rather than go home and have to cope with him. For anyone else reading this my advice would be to give it time before going down this route with newly bereaved parents or PIL and I think OP would probably agree now. Eventually as he got older he ended up going into hospital for a fall and they refused to have him back so he ended up in warden controlled sheltered accommodation and they supported as best they could but with boundaries.

I think setting boundaries would work in this case. Call her bluff next time she says she wants the £80k back and say no it was a gift in legal terms and she has had 4 years of living in your house so she can consider it rent. You cannot sell part of your house and on its own the two rooms will probably not add that much in value and you lost part of your land to build it. The money given to your brother is irrelevant but I think it is quite fair to say she gifted him almost the same as you without strings whereas your "gift" definitely had strings as you had no choice as to how it was spent, no time limit on when it can be realised and you sacrificed your personal privacy along with a degree of responsibility for your mums well being when you took it.

If she wants to use the main kitchen or the garden then she has a responsibility to help out in keeping them tidy and clean. If she won't help you out with babysitting or collecting the children from school then fine you won't be giving her lifts or do other things for her as she gets older.

£150 is not much towards bills if you are having to pay for heating through the day when she is home and you are out. She has to pay a third or a quarter of energy and water costs and council tax along with the cost of TV, internet, telephone etc. Add them all up and show them to her. Are the two rooms a self contained annexe and can they be metered separately if she protests?

It is difficult to see how this will end well given your relationship was not that great before you embarked on this and she seems to be a bit of a matriarch. In the end though you hold the cards. She is living in your home and if she does not like it she can leave.

£80K for a small extension to your prooerty, 2 rooms. ?. What was she buying?. A live in job as a cleaner nanny and gardener?. PLUS additionally contributing to bills which i accept as reasobable. YABU If its now not working , i suggest you have your property valued, put it on the market and sell it, hopefully you can repay her if she wants so she can buy a retirement flat and possibly leave it to you in her will so that you end up with same amount as your brother. Why cant she go out or do what she wants in her later years ?. You are being very unreasonable.

BMH54 Why should the OP have to sell their house? They were living in it before the mum came to live with them. The house is perfectly fine for them and their family. If they sell, which they have already said they cannot afford they will have costs etc which will all have to come out of the sale proceeds. There is no guarantee the cost of the extension will have added £80k on to the value of the home so there may not be enough anyway. Legally the money is a gift as was the money to the brother. The fact that living together is not working is every bit as much the mothers fault as OP. Cautionary tale for anyone considering having parents move in with them in later years.

Ilizzie - this isn't an IHT issue

A live in job as cleaner, m and gardener? The OP never expected thet Bmh54. Whilst you might accept the £150 pm bills as being 'reasonable', they clearly are not for the OP, who is living the situation.

And what does she need to sell her house so DM can buy a retirement flat when she could just as easily move into DB's investment flat? He's had years of benefiting from market rent.

Actually I think starsparkle had a point. You could have looked after your mum until the worst of her grief had receded enough for her to make a more rational decision. I think that you are both stuck. You with the added stress and your mum who, like me and a few years younger, does not wish to look after children. Look at it from her point of view she has lost her independence. I think you and brother need to get together. she has given you both her money. I would get the money back for her, either selling up or mortgage.