My mum lives with me but acts like a guest

[lookybooky]

My father passed away 4 years ago and my mum (early 60's) was so distraught that I invited her to move in with my family. We didn't have a spare room so she gave us £80k to build an extension (she has the 2 rooms that we built). At the time she said it was all she could spare but that was fine as it was enough for the 2 storey extension which includes a bathroom and kitchenette. She also pays £150 p/m towards bills. She doesn't babysit or do any housework or gardening but she was a bit miserable for the first year so I didn't expect any help. But we're in year 4 now and all she does is watch TV and go shopping or meet friends. Again, I could probably deal with that but I've just found out that she gave my brother almost exactly the same amount of money (only £10k less) at the same time as she gave me. AIBU that she's living like a guest in my home while he gets to do whatever he wants with the money (he's invested it into property I believe)? I've pointed out that I feel it's unfair but she said it's her own business and if I'm unhappy, I should return the £80k and she'll get a retirement flat. She won't move in with my bro as she hates his wife!

I don't think she's taking advantage of you financially. It sounds fair to all of you, however the heating should be high only in her part and she should help clean the kitchen if she uses it. Actually she should really stick to her own kitchen if she's not integrating in family lif in other wayse. She can not be expected to clean the rest of the house or do the garden.
She can't be expected to baby sit either, although it's a shame that she doesn't want to and I too, would feel put out about it. However in return, I hope she doesn't expect you to run round after her when she is frailer and in need of care. She has chosen to live as an independent lodger so that should continue into her old age. You should not feel obliged to help her. Her chickens will come home to roost then. Perhaps gently point this out is a non aggressive way in general conversation. Help should be a two way street.

I can see why you are resentful but I think this is because of your general relationship with her and her lack of interest in doing typically grandmotherly things, rather than the financial or housework inequality. (you will benefit from her investment later)

In your mind you should redefine her living with you as a lodger in her self contained flat. Don't think of her as a family member living with you as she clearly doesn't. Don't feel guilty about not being the typical dutiful daughter as she gets older either. She's chosen to cast off those typical roles already.

It's hardly a gift if a) the OP had to build an extension she didn't particularly want on her house and which doesn't really add value as the Op doesn't want to sell; b) the OP's mother wants the entire £80K spent on the extension returned to her if she moves out (so therefore not a gift, but an unwanted interest-free loan; and c) the OP's brother has been given £70K to spend on something on which he now receives rent.

It doesn't sound at all reasonable really. Something wrong with her logic I think. You did a very kind thing there. I know she's your Mum and most of us would help our Mums but it was beyond the call of duty.
It seems a bit horrid to say 'like it or lump it or I will leave!'. I would have thought she would want to help a bit in the garden or the house.
She sounds quite selfish, but I may be wrong...???

Sorry, try again:
It's hardly a gift if a) the OP had to build an extension she didn't particularly want on her house and which doesn't really add value as the Op doesn't want to sell; b) the OP's mother wants the entire £80K spent on the extension returned to her if she moves out (so therefore not a gift, but an unwanted interest-free loan); and c) the OP's brother has been given £70K to spend on something on which he now receives rent and he doesn't have to return this gift under any circumstances. I think the OP's mother is playing favourites, unpleasantly, and pushing her luck, being very selfish and uncaring about her daughter and expecting nothing of her "golden boy" son.

I do wish some PPs would RTFT before telling OP off and how 'mean she is to her mother'. Nothing about OP's posts have been mean.

She's struggling with a situ that many people find themselves, having offered to help and support their older relative ( usually the relative is far more 'of a good age') and it just doesn't work after a number of years.

But yes housing are likely to help in this situ, or at least add her name to sheltered housing waiting list if relationship has broken down & Mother has no funds for another property, and yes, if relative needed sufficient care support later on (she's too young & able bodied as an independent 60 y.o. but maybe later she might need residential care), LA services would help (if no funds available & residential care home was required).

If those services would help, with their very tight criteria, then PPs need to appreciate that not everything stays tenable nor goes to plan, despite best of initial intentions.

LookyBooky, you have no idea of the relationship I have with my mum. I suspect, like with many women, it's quite complicated.

I've read your posts and that was my opinion. You don't get to control a thread just because you started it. If you wanted an echo chamber of agreement with you, you should have said.

Lying into think you have been unfair in your post. However, I've been reading this with interest and not from a personally invested POV unlike OP.

I think OP was fair to respond to your comment as she did. Equally you can take criticism. Different perspectives are valid and equally challengeable. Unless you feel yours aren't?

I think it’s right to expect her to help keep the kitchen clean if she uses it, and to help with emergency childcare if you are acting as her carer by taking her to appointments. But the money she gave your brother is no concern of yours.

*I too not 'into' (doh!!)

Both my parents were dead before I was 40 and my wife walked out with no explanation 17 months ago so this is one of those occasions when you should count your blessings. Your mother was probably depressed for a long time and struggling to adapt to her new situation. Keep communicating, ask about her moods and feelings and also that you are doing a good job and being responsible looking after her.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe
Actually no, saying that I'm horrible is just mean and beyond the question of AIBU and I have every right to call you out on that. It's not controlling the thread, its calling out a troll. I have accepted and agree with lots of the views that say it's a fair agreement in many ways or that I shouldn't expect help. You've made your point, I'll respond to others now thanks.

@EllenMP

Fair points. This thread has included lots of useful perspectives.

It's only relevant in that OP and DBro had similar gifts. Neither have to be repaid legally. It's very relevant there, when Mother emptily threatens to want one gift returned but not the other, neither were with any legally defined reservations.

Haven’t read the whole thread yet but has anyone mentioned separate council tax? I think that if a kitchen is fitted in the annexe it then becomes a rateable property separate to the main house?

With regards to the rest you really need to sit down and discuss it with her. She is either part of the family, using your facilities etc and therefore is someone you can call in to help out with housework and kids or she is living separately in which case she waits to be invited into your home and doesn’t use the kitchen or your food etc.

As PPs have said she could be with you for another decade or two.....

Your money issues are not her concern, you've overstretched. Manage your money better rather than despise your mum with your hand out for more.

Lying - One of the reason OP is overstretched is that her mother is costing her family money. She turns the heating full on all day almost every day; she has free transport to go shopping and to appointments (and this doesn't just cost the OP money - it eats into her family and work time).

She pays £150/ month - £30/week! Where could anyone get expenses paid accommodation at that price? She obviously has full access to OP's house, so I imagine that she doesn't have an exclusive lockable "own access", because this would mean that she would have to pay full council tax on the property she inhabits. (And in many areas, this could be easily £150/month!). She has effectively added an extension to OP's property which OP neither needed nor wanted. This will have taken a considerable chunk of OP's garden. It may or may not have added value to OP's home - it is possible to price a house out of a street by adding too much in the way of "improvements".

The Mother doesn't interact with OP's family as a family member - she only grudgingly does anything for them, but expects to be ferried about. She bullies, undermines and takes advantage of the OP, and threatens her whenever she's confronted.

She has caused problems with OP's DH because of her attitude, and this will affect their children, if it hasn't already.

All of the benefits are flowing to the Mother - and yet all of the top trumps are in OP's hands, if she chooses to use them. She has every right to tell her Mother to get her arse out of the property and never come back.

I doubt she will do that, as she seems much too generous a person. She offered her Mother a home at a time she was depressed and afraid; she hoped by this to improve their relationship (It's a fact of life that an unhappy childhood leads to children who are usually desperate to show how "good" they are, and win the uncaring person's love. It's awful, but we can't help it. There is something so primal about this first relationship that we are desperate to make it work.)

Her Mother, however, and for whatever reason is a selfish and manipulative piece of work and is determined to rule the roost. It may be that Mother had a bloody awful childhood herself, but she seems determined to inflict it on her daughter's family (Yea, even unto the fourth generation . . . )

I’ve skim read (promise I will rtft later) so apologise for repeating what may have been said already.

I understand completely why you feel put out with your DB. He has got off very lightly.

I don’t think it’s possible to know what it’s like living with a parent in your own home unless you’ve done it. However much you love each other it requires LOADS of compromise, and you have to expect loss of privacy and independence, which only increases the older they get.

I think you need to reconsider the arrangement now. Your DM is young and fit enough to live independently and that’s probably what she would rather do, if truth be told.

Have an honest talk with her about options. I can see why she would want her stake back but it’s unreasonable to expect you to return the money she invested in your house but not your DB. Either you buy your way out of this set up and she goes to live with him, or you and your DB both return some or all of her money, remortgaging if necessary, to allow her to buy somewhere else suitable nearby.

You can point out that the extension is still there and will always be available to her when she needs it, but for the moment you will get on a lot better living separately.

£37.50/week, not £30. I should have taken my shoes and socks off before starting on the sums - it's still bloody cheap!

I'm not sure it's unfair. Surely the money she spent on your house will benefit you.
Is the extension self contained or do you pay for the hearing lighting and food. If so she should pay for that herself. But I don't think she should necessarily child mind or clean the rest of the house but of course it would be nice if she did.
I assume she sold the family home to pay for the extension and the money she gave your brother was what she saw as his share of the house and the money she paid for the extension is what she sees as your share?

But it came with a condition, a big one. It has created a problem, if it doesn’t work out they have to sell their house. That’s a pretty harsh thing for a mother to do.

@Myimaginarycathasfleas

OP can do that without remortgaging. Her mother can apply for sheltered housing. And pay her own rent and bills. I expect mother won't want to take that option and will compromise way before then.

I can't agree more than what @SchadenfreudePersonified said.

Sorry I have just seen that she is critical of your parenting. Complains when you ask her to help with the children when you need emergency cover and doesn't pay her fair share of the bills. You are not being unreasonable to be upset and annoyed about those things.

Haven’t read the whole thread, but I’d just sell up, next house wouldn’t have room for her. End off. She can’t make you pay back a gift

lookybooky. First I know it's a lot too late but the nature of the subject makes me want to say I am so sorry you have lost your Dad, he couldn't have been all that old.

I've been following, sorry to not speak earlier. Sounds to me as if OffToBedhampton has the legal aspect nailed but no doubt should it need to be addressed you would get advice.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are suffering like this. I am very angry with the posters who say rude things to you so please ignore them. I feel I can judge them (says she) because I am actually a tad older than your mum!! (Please don't throw me off mumsnet.) I am a widow too, was widowed at just 42.

I think your mum is ghastly! I don't make any excuses for her at all! She is manipulative, selfish and acts as if she is entitled. She has absolutely no right to criticise your parenting and she is completely in the wrong in disparaging you in your home especially if your children can hear.

I don't understand why no one has said this but as I see it, your mother gave her two children gifts of money. One had the money outright; £70k. the other had the money so long as she built a couple of rooms on her (the daughter's) current home and let the mother live in them paying her contribution of the house bills. This sum was £80k. That's all known facts.

But my interpretation, as a mum whose husband died, and as a daughter whose dad died, is this: The Granny gave each child £70k. She also gave an extra £10k to the child she went to live with and made to spend her money on extending the house etc. So you got an extra £10k gift for having your mother live with you, rent free, and for being made to build the extension so she could live in it, and you not have a choice about what to do with your £70k gift.

If she says to you "give me back my money" say that you will have to deduct the appropriate rent from the £10K she gave you first. If she says it was £80K, tell her she only gets the rest if your brother coughs up his too and you need proof that he has!

I have met people like your mother. I am her generation and I was widowed when my children were at school. You have to stand up to them. With a firm and calm voice, tell her the facts. A gift cannot be taken back. House rules say that the mother in this house (you) does not get criticised for her parenting style. That if she uses the big kitchen she cleans the big kitchen. That the family side of the home is your private residence and your family need time together without interruptions on a regular basis.

As for me - I would not go and live with my children under any circumstances. The nearest I would consider would be an entirely self contained and independent house nearby. Under the same roof, I would drive them mad and they would drive me mad. Visits to each other and babysitting would be lovely. When I am too disabled to cope I will take my chances with the Council and Health services that are on offer. I am never going to ask my children to look after me! I want them to remember me with some kind of happiness!

The next issue: £150 pcm for "expenses." She's having a laugh! Absolutely not enough! Go through your Direct Debits and chop them (those that are appropriate to the House) into 3 and tell her that this year's household bills, electric, insurance, council charge, is £xxx amount! I live alone and my Council Charge alone is over £100, a quick reckoning gets me up to £437.27pcm for my DDs for the house bills and car insurance not tax or petrol and I think I pay my house insurance annually! Don't leave anything out! If your bills are £2k pcm which I expect they are with 3 adults plus children, then she has to pay at least £450, possibly £500+. I mean, if she is on the State Pension alone (and I expect she gets a pension from your Dad's pension scheme as well) she is making a mint living with you! (Actually I need a bit of cash... When can I come and stay? I actually like children! My first job was teaching....)

Tell her about not paying appropriate rent and that she is damned lucky not to have this overhead to pay. As it is she does not pay enough to contribute towards household maintenance....

Phew! I am totally in support of you my love. Your mum is a taker not a giver. Her "gift" had strings attached. But it was a gift! So it is yours! She has no rights to it. Your house is your home and she behaves according to your house rules. As for Foxes! What utter rot! How could your child be less at risk from any fox problem if you were there in the garden? What's stopping her going out to play with he DGD? Oh well... she won't change. Apparently we get worse as we get older.

And that £80k? Your Dear Dad left that to you. Believe me, when he died, for which I am so sorry, he left plenty for your mother, in money and assets.

Be strong my love, you did a kind thing by not wanting her to be on her own. It works both ways though. If she won't make a bit of effort then you can't force her. Don't let her spoil your family life. That is extremely precious. Put your husband and children first. I am older than your mum and we've had most of our lives. OK we hope for more. But yours is extremely important. You are laying the foundations for the happiness of your children's lives. You deserve to enjoy a healthy and wonderful family life. Put that first. Lots of love, Elle x

Yes, she needs to clean the main kitchen if she uses it as well but, to be honest, if she has her own kitchenette then she shouldn't be using it really, unless invited to. If she uses the garden then she should help out there too and, of course, bills increase so her share should go up accordingly. She should also be paying a third of the council tax.

It would to be nice of her to offer to pick the children up one day a week at least and do childcare until you get home. However, if she becomes ill or incapacitated then she will have to pay for her own care if she doesn't see any care responsibilities as part of the deal of living with you so ask her if she is saving for that!. It works both ways.

If you are really unhappy then put the house up for sale and return the £80K. That's the only solution in the long term.

@Jaffacakebeast
That won't work at all. No easier to sell a house with a lodger refusing to move, than to remove lodger by changing locks. And OP doesn't want to do either, it's their family home. It costs about £14-26k in fees and stamp duty to move house.

Definitely worth it to RTFT or at least OP's updates.