Can we please discuss 'moving out of the way' for men?

[VladmirsPoutine]

I've frankly had it and have made it my mission to never move out of the way and just sort of pull my whole-self in a forward position so that it's either we're going to clash or he'll side-step out of my way.

Can I ask all you women to do the same?

I was always somehow subconsciously moving - but fuck it. The pavement is as much my right.

Gahh! Just walked back to work and a man whom I did not move out of the way for motioned me to the left but I walked straight through and thought fuck it. He then turned back to call me a bitch.

Hope everyone else is having a lovely Thursday morning!

Agree with ilovechocolate, I'm 8.5 months preg and have totally found that people will actively try to run you down. I frequently have to throw myself in a bush or behind a wheelie bin to avoid being slammed in the bump. Teenagers and elderly people are actually the most considerate at noticing and letting me past. I find male and female middle aged people are the worst for trying to shove me out of the way.

I do make sure I'm aware of approaching people, especially if I have the pushchair and pull over for older people/prams/small children/mobility scooters, but I think some people just focus on getting where they're going regardless of who is in their path. I've had my pushchair, containing toddler, pushed into the road by someone 'in a rush' before. Thankfully a man coming out of his house saw and grabbed it before anything awful happened.

How bizarre, are you sure you are not giving off so much aggression in this that you make yourself an arse & that's why you git grief

I'm disabled, nothing you can see, but as a result I never walk around anyone, male or female unless they are clearly more frail than I am.

Men in general move out of my way without a second thought, it's a none issue

And if you haven’t noticed it happening, fellow Londoners, I would wager that it’s because you are polite and thoughtful people who automatically move or adjust your pace, because that is the right thing to do.

I do the morning commute into the City in rush hour walking 30 mins on narrow crowded pavements. I don't notice this phenomenon because yes, I am a fast walker in my trainers and am constantly dodging, speeding up, slowing down so automatically move anyway. I have been known to run for short distances on the road to get away from crowds of oblivious tourists. When you move cheek to jowl in crowded spaces, it is far more important that I stay preserved in my bubble and no one touch me. Hence I go out of my way to avoid a collision, usually by swerving and speeding up.

As a 7 stone female, I like to stay alive.

And getting off the tube - when did people get so shit about trying to barge on when people are still getting off? tktally fair to shoulder badger someone who is trying to push on the tube first whilst people are trying to get off.

Then how do you suggest I do it @scoobyloobyloo?

@vladmirspoutine

I don't necessarily have an idea for how you smash the patriarchy. Of course it is up to the individual.

Personally I find conversation and education the key so have chosen a career in education to teach young men and women about equality. However, when I teach them, the first stuff they usually mention is bollocks they have been told by their parents or read in shitrags, like 'all feminists hate men' or 'feminism in sexism against men'.

Stuff like 'Patriarchal Chicken', as I'm quite sure by now the DM headline will be, makes feminists look like bitter, angry, man hating women, which is NOT the point of feminism at all.

I'm sorry if you have experienced being subjugated by men whilst walking in the street. I never have and perhaps there is something in giving off an angry vibe which attracts confrontation.

Our job is not to battle men - it's to raise awareness of just how patriarchy undermines ALL of us who live under it - male or female. It's not a fight against each other, it's a fight against the system. And the more we undermine men, the more we alienate 50% of the population who could be getting on board and working with us to make the world work in a better way.

New game

Patriarchy Shittin

Just sitting on the loo for hours on end

Walk with purpose and people will move, man or woman. At least they do for me and I'm a 4ft 10 female so hardly intimidating.

the more we undermine men

Not moving for some bloke who is prepared to swear at a person rather than adapt (because power trip) is just an every day lesson in standing up for oneself and hopefully has the added bonus of making rude people be a bit more considerate next time.

It is not undermining men it is refusing to enable bad manners. It is quite acceptable to expect more from others and society will be all the better for it.

Not really noticed this. I think I tend to do a half-and-half with the other person. Maybe I've been assuming that wrongly. Certainly I've noticed men give way to me and I appreciate the courtesy. I also walk quite fast: maybe people subconsciously factor in the impact speed if they hit me!

Central London is horrible though. So many more people on the pavements. You are not allowed to slow down or stop ever lest you inconvenience the person who can't help but be tailgating you. This doesn't happen so much where there are fewer people and they can space themselves out better. Less patriarchal chicken and more battery chicken in the cities.

Never noticed this myself (live and work in London)

Maybe all these self-important rude women that are apparently not moving out the way are on MN and playing patriarchal chicken.

It's not something I've ever seen. Well certainly there are people who storm around expecting everyone to move around them, but never in my life have I seen a man gesturing for them to move aside as he approached someone!!! That's madness as surely!!!

Actually I lied.

I have encountered it once; in Boots angry little man with tractor sized buggy shouted at me something about being horrible because I had expected him to move round me. I laughed because it was so daft.

Had temporarily forgotten that!!! I'd been walking down the aisle and wasn't on some mission to make people move (in fact he was right in the centre of (narrow) aisle. Not exacly sure where he expected me to go; top of the shampoo shelf maybe.)

I'm quite a small person but do have resting bitch face.

Yep, notice this all the time in London with a certain breed of man.

The other thing I've noticed is that when I'm in a long queue, and someone wants to walk thru the queue to get to another queue or somewhere else, they'll walk in front of me or ask me to move, but hardly ever the men in front of me or behind me. When it happens nearly every day it's infuriating.

Another who has lived in london for my whole life and doesn't come across this. IME everyone makes micro adjustments to avoid each other, the notable exception being women with buggies who are just bloody rude and tend to try and mow you down.

The only time I've experienced this was actually a woman who basically ran over my feet with her buggy in a waiting room, then started talking really loudly to her friend that her buggy has right of way over my feet (I would have moved them if she'd given me a chance and she actually had plenty of room to move past). I think some people have a chip on their shoulder.

From my experience, it's mostly men who don't look where they are going and presume you will sidestep them.

Bloke the other day walking towards me looking down at his phone. The pavement wasn't very wide so I pulled my mobility scooter over to the side (about six inches from the hedge). I am stationary by now, he suddenly realises I am there and tries to force his way between my scooter and the hedge. Gets his leg stuck, finally untangles himself and walks around me giving me a filthy look. I sit passively until he has gone past and then catch the eye of a woman not far behind him and we both burst out laughing. Twat.

I'm a man. I always go around people/children/dogs/lamp posts. It just makes sense for me to to be the one to change direction, as I'm always the faster moving object. In the time it would take the average pedestrian to decide what they wanted to do, I could have circled them three times. (I may be exaggerating slightly.)

I really don't understand wanting other people to give way, why would you place control of your progress in the hands of strangers?

But PettyContractor, what if you met another fast-moving walker, like me? We'd end up circling each other several times before we could move on.

@scoobyloobyloo

I don't hate men. I just want to break down the patriarchy in manageable ways.

IMO you're not doing the cause any good posting stuff like this.

It makes you look petty and as a knock on effect, makes it look like that age old bloody misnomer, that we are all 'men haters'.

No it doesn't. Are you a man?

*hate moving out of the way for people who then don’t say thank you, I always mutter you’re welcome cunt under my breath- never quite brave enough to say it out loud.

My favourite response to someone not saying thank you is "I'll just got fuck myself" under my breath but just loud enough for them to hear but think they've misheard*

Best thing I’ve read on MN

to all those women who say it doesn't happen where they live, it's worth looking at it more carefully. The same man who will happily open a door or let a woman go first, give up his seat on the train etc will, nonetheless, more often than not, expect a woman to give way on the pavement. When I first realised this (because I was pregnantt and physically COULDN'T move out of the way), DH told me I was being silly. He sheepishly returned a few days later to say he'd realised that he did it. He was HORRIFIED. This is a man who still opens my car door for me...(he's as much of a feminist as me, but is perfectly comfortable with old fashioned manners) but he realised that he had internalised this thing that said he had more right to the pavement than women. Bless him.

It happens. A lot. And is just another example of how expectations for and from men are different, that even the good ones don't realise it's happening.

I really haven't noticed this ( in London ) and I don't think I am doing some kind of subconscious sideways slither out of the way. I think I have a built in Paddington Bear Hard Stare and quite an assertive but not aggressive demeanor, though.

The exception is groups of tourists but I do understand that a kind of group obliviousness takes over and they no longer recognise that they are blocking up a pathway.

@Ellenborough I have tested my theory with women!

For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t walk aggressively, I don’t barge people on purpose, I don’t aim to be rude or arrogant. I simply notice if someone is walking towards me and notice whether they move or not. Women almost always move slightly and I do for them. I don’t think women even realise that they are doing it. It is inbuilt. I do notice that many men do not move from their trajectory, it is expected that I will step out of their way. You can tell if someone is going to alter their course or not. Some men do. I move slightly for them too and we all continue happily on our way. It is in places like Aestkjbatwr where it is most noticeable.

I swear I am not making this up! This comes from walking 10-15km a day through different parts of a crowded city and observing behaviours.

Aestkjbatwr?! Wtf? That was supposed to say Westminster 🙈