Can we please discuss 'moving out of the way' for men?

[VladmirsPoutine]

I've frankly had it and have made it my mission to never move out of the way and just sort of pull my whole-self in a forward position so that it's either we're going to clash or he'll side-step out of my way.

Can I ask all you women to do the same?

I was always somehow subconsciously moving - but fuck it. The pavement is as much my right.

Gahh! Just walked back to work and a man whom I did not move out of the way for motioned me to the left but I walked straight through and thought fuck it. He then turned back to call me a bitch.

Hope everyone else is having a lovely Thursday morning!

@Vladimir'sPoutine, thanks so much for starting this thread! Food for thought indeed. I've long-since been walking nonchalantly through the middle of groups of rude dicks staring at their phones, walking three-abreast and taking up the whole of the pavement, but said dickishness seems to be spread pretty evenly across the genders.

I don't think I consciously move out of the way for men, especially in scenarios where it looks as though it's expected. Whether or not I do so unconsciously is less clear, but now I've seen Patriarchy Chicken it won't be unconscious in the future. I'll play!

It's a matter of judgement as to what is basic politeness and what is sheer arrogance on the part of the other party who expects you to skip submissively out of the way. One thing's a certainty: you'll collide. It's happened to me before when I've been resolutely determined not to move. And people have been quite willing to bump into certain heavy objects I've been carrying with me; completely to their detriment as this has to have been painful! I'm also pretty tall at 5' 10" and I'm wondering if that helps.

Don't even get me started on manspreading. I've started asking them politely but forcefully not to do it. The responses are strange, as if a straightforward verbal communication is ruder than the actions which prompted it. The reverse is actually true.

Up the Patriarchy Chicken. We shall not be moved!

@BorsetshireBlueBalls - I didn’t notice it until I started walking everywhere in an attempt to be fitter. I often walk through Westminster, Victoria, the South Bank, London Bridge and other congested areas. I too used to politely move out of everyone’s way until I noticed that many men simply expect a woman to move if you are on the same trajectory as them.

I am not rude. I will always move out of the way if I need to e.g. for someone disabled, or a Parent with children etc. Women tend to move automatically for each other. On my walks I have spent a lot of time observing the ways people behave.

@FlashingLights101 as I said, I am not trying to be rude, I am simply counteracting the rudeness and entitled behaviour of some men.

And as for why don’t men bump into each other - because they move for each other! Just often not for women.

I've started to move a little, just enough so that if they also move a little we will miss each other. But if they don't move they get hit - my elbow and shoulder at the ready. I usually make sure its the side my handbag is on as well.

I tend to move out of the way for everyone - men, women, hildren, dogs... This is not some sort of weird deference, but because I find it quicker to adjust my path and keep walking.

Same. But then I spent childhood being told to ‘mind to the side, move out of the way, stand up so the adult can sit down’ etc. Drives my DH mad, I actually moved out of the way for teens walking 2 abreast yesterday by walking behind DH so we were single file. It is just second nature to me.

I did the the other day, I was walking up the stairs of the train station, I had my big bag and my yoga mat, and had got to pretty much the top of the stairs, on the side closest to the wall, when a bloke rounds the corner and starts to make his way down the stairs. Upon seeing someone already there, does he take a simple side step and continue down? No. What he does is stand in front of me, so we just sort of...stared at each other. You could literally see him looking at me, fully expecting me to move. When he realised I wasn’t going to move for him he called me a ‘stupid fucking bitch’.

This is the only tome I really remember purposely NOT moving for someone, I’m sure I usually do it without thinking .
‘Patriarchy chicken’ haha, I love it! I’m going to start playing this consciously now!!

And if you haven’t noticed it happening, fellow Londoners, I would wager that it’s because you are polite and thoughtful people who automatically move or adjust your pace, because that is the right thing to do. I only play patriarchy chicken with men!

I might start a game called 'sitting on women's bags that are occupying seats on a crowded train'.

I play 'Patriarchy chicken' all the time. It does help. And even if it results in abuse or hassle I'd still urge you all to do the same. I'M NOT MOVING.

Pedestrian lane discipline is an underrated skill.

I personally like old-fashion manners, but when you claim total equality, why shouldn't YOU move and expect the man to do it?

I move over a bit & expect them to do the same. If they don't they get a shoulder or an elbow.
A few weeks ago, a group of very able looking elders (60ish) where walking 5 a breast across the pavement, one of 'gents' barged right into me, pretty impressive as I was also pushing a pram (with a newborn in) and he didn't hit the pram. He waited until I was 10 or so metres away and shouted at me. I thought he'd be more shocked if o didn't swear so I turned, pointed at him and said 'THAT was your fault'.

Why don't people RTFT?

I never noticed this until having children. I'm heavily pregnant again and I find it's MUCH worse that men actually force themselves ahead of me despite having a huge bump when I expect them to let me get past. If I'm not pregnant I find men do sometimes make way or hold the door (I would also hold the door for men too I just find it polite) but it never happens while I'm pregnant it's like I'm invisible. If I have got the pram I don't move and when I'm not pregnant I also try not to move - I thought I was the only one who did this and am now going to enjoy it much more knowing it actually is a game! I have little patience at the moment and when I got huffed at by a man as we both approached the exit door at M&S and he couldn't get past me, I turned to him and said 'I'm sorry to have held you up for all of 5 seconds'. He did at least look shocked and didn't say anything back 😂

I do this but with large groups of people (mostly tourists - I live in a very touristy city) who simply won't move and expect me to step out onto the road, usually when I can't see the oncoming traffic. Not only is it rude but it's simply dangerous! There are a lot of cyclists where I live and if I had to step into the road, I could potentially go straight into the path of one of them, knock them off their bike and then we'd both be lying in the road. Either that or I'd just get hit by a car.

It's actually shocked me how unwilling some people are to move, I always wonder if they're incredibly rude or just incredibly unobservant. Men especially! Patriarchy chicken is a great game.

I will be open-minded and see if this is a thing I've just been completely oblivious to. Heading out for a walk now.

I've seen so much more "entitled" behaviour from women than I have ever seen from men - particularly when it comes to seats on public transport.

I fully support the installation of a fast walking lane on pavements though, then I can stop being annoyed so much and wizz past the strollers.

I do love a bit of pavement racing but shoulder barging can be a risky sport 😊

Interesting post and thought provoking.

Firstly I’d like to apologise for some of my fellow men. I knew that giving way could be a bit of an issue but shouting abuse. Terrible. Some of us are total arses.

I tend to be the one that moves, I just do, never really analysed it or myself in this respect.

Why some men can think they can barge through and give abuse to those who don’t recognise their right to do this escapes me.

Is it a younger man’s sort of thing? Small man’s thing? Angry man’s thing? Have some been listening rather too much to Jordan Peterson?

I suppose I’ve never really come across this being male - I need to do more walking, or imagining walking, in others shoes.

One of my influences in my teens was a certain maths teacher. He’d hold a door open for any and everyone, always remembered his pleases and thank yous, knew your name (first one too) This was unusual in the early 70s.

I tried to stick to this in my teaching career. Hopefully some of it rubbed off on others?

Update: so I just consciously tried ‘PC’ outside lps station... Phil Mitchell type, barged straight into me, and I nearly went flying. This is within minutes of playing...

@thedisorganisedmum in an ideal world where there genuinely was equality mean nd women would move for each other, we would all get along nicely etc etc.

But this is about some men who simply expect women to get out of their way. They are at best shocked and at worst abusive when you don’t move aside for them. Posters above have recounted their experiences of that including one poster who talked about a man actually indicating that she should move.

That’s not equality, is it? That’s rudeness and entitlement

I have some interesting experiences with this.

Where I live there are 3 schools. One is a primary school, one is a boys only secondary school and the other is a girls only secondary school.

It pains me to say this, as I have a teenage son, but the people least likely to share the pavement are the teenage boys. Next least likely are parents with small primary school aged kids. Then there are the girls, who 9 times out of 10 share the pavement. When the boys walk towards the girls the girls alway end up single file/on the grass verge.

I am forever saying to the boys 'look out' 'watch where you're going' 'share the pavement'

Interestingly, they are also the group that seem to play chicken with traffic... One day I'm going to see one of them lying in the road having been run over. Its frightening to watch. So maybe it's not about men feeling superior to women, maybe it's about a misplaced sense of invincibility?

LondonHuffyPuffy
but as I have said, I have witnessed more rudeness and entitlement from women than men.

I don't disagree with the rudeness, but it's absolutely not gender related.

Fair enough. We have had different experiences!

PreseaCombatir

Update: so I just consciously tried ‘PC’ outside lps station... Phil Mitchell type, barged straight into me, and I nearly went flying. This is within minutes of playing..

So, you deliberately set yourself on a collision course with a random stranger and then get annoyed when...erm...you bump into each other.

You even managed to squeeze in some additional menace to the scenario with reference to Phil Mitchell, top work.

I will always move out of the way for anyone less mobile than me, doesn't matter if they're Female or Male. In the small market town I live in it really isn't a problem, most people are polite here.
However I attended a very big sporting event recently, the championship decider of the Six Nations. Men spectators definitely outnumber women, so I decided to play Patriarchy chicken, it was great fun and I didn't get bumped once or have any abuse for not giving way. The funniest part for me was the expressions on the men's faces when I didn't move. They looked slightly shocked and surprised that a woman hadn't given way for them. My tip is look ahead into the middle distance and never, ever make eye contact

Are people really bothered by who moves? The only time the whole ''who moves'' thing bothers me is getting on and off public transport, when I have been known to say (loudly) during London rush hour ''Let the passengers off the train first please''. And I'm a Londoner. Sometimes I move, sometimes the other person does.

I can't be arsed playing silly games with it all.