To be surprised this woman got so cross with my three yr old

[JuniperGinYay]

DD is recently 3, but has good clear speech. She’s small and could be presumed to be 2.

Like many toddlers she’s a bit absolute. We cycled past a woman on a horse in the road, later we saw the same woman at a out door forest cafe.

Dd was sitting with Dd 6 and the woman lent on the next table while her friend saw to the horse, I was getting drinks and in clear sight but not ear shot. Apparently dd3 said ‘horses go in farms, not on the road’ then when the woman disagreed she said ‘yes! Roads are for cars! You scare horse in road!’. Personally I would have just either smiled and wandered off or explained my horse wasn’t scared on the road and was used to it. Instead the woman stomped over and gave me a tirade about what I taught my daughter, her attitude and how I was a ‘presumptuous car driver ‘. Dd was still smiling, now chatting about unicorns and horses to her sister in the same smiley way. I was initially very polite, explained she didn’t actually mean to criticise and just chats away. She’d probably just only seen horses off road or in farm pictures and was basing it on that, not family disapproval of horse riding. I also pointed out we were on bikes. I smiled and all that and tried to be friendly and tone it down, but then she retorted i had no idea how to raise polite children so I also raised my voice and told her to just stay away from the children if she had issue.

I’m still stewing on it today. Bizarre? If she dislikes small children why she even stood so close to a little one (tables scattered out doors in forest area, plenty of space) I don’t know.

fillybuster I am well aware of the law and the fact that horses have the right to be on there and that drivers are required to slow down and give way (ex rider!)

BUT

The road is full of selfish, entitled individuals and putting a horse in with them, regardless of whether it is their lawful right or not is dangerous.

Both to the horse and other road users.

I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word 'precocious'.

It doesn't mean 'developmentally advanced' as many people think it does, but rather 'rude and lacking respect for elders'.

Your DC shouldn't be speaking to adults in that way, especially not strangers in public.

The whole horse/road issue is a red herring, it is your parenting that has given rise to your DD behaving like this and the woman was quite right to be taken aback by it.

‘They shouldn’t be on the road.
It makes me really angry actually seeing them there*’

Then you have rage issues and should probably get some help.*

Or maybe I just like horses and the thought of them being terrified and potentially injured by selfish people is upsetting...?

I don't think 3 year olds are old enough to understand the concept of rudeness. They haven't developed a filter as yet

No, but we have a responsibility as parents to teach them that some behaviours are rude and not appropriate. OP seems not to have got this memo.

From the tone of your post doggy, I suspect it's a safety thing for you.

I do wish that it weren't the way it is. Hat cams are having some impact though, some people wear tabards saying they're recording - and have reported people respond to that as they do the 'polite' range - they do things properly.

It's utterly unfair though to be angry at the riders on the road, usually the only access to bridleways is from a road, in fact one near me comes into a road for about half a mile and cuts back to a bridleway. It's the impatient, ignorant or plain dangerous drivers that make it like it is. Horses shouldn't have to be shoved off the road just so people can behave badly. Because it wouldn't mean just not riding on the road, a horse needs exercise similar to a dog and they are trained in schools, but can't always be ridden in one, it'd mean giving up and selling up for many, many owners. That's not fair at all.

Or maybe I just like horses and the thought of them being terrified and potentially injured by selfish people is upsetting...?

Then you are catastrophising. CBT is useful for that.

If you know anything about horses in this country then you will be aware most riders are only using the roads to get to the bridlepaths.

...and horses (as well as cyclists and pedestrians) have as much right to use the road as anyone else.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is a monumental arsehole.

3 year old children should be delighted by seeing a horse, not giving the owner a load of guff about not riding it on the road.

Start em young

*Then you are catastrophising. CBT is useful for that.

If you know anything about horses in this country then you will be aware most riders are only using the roads to get to the bridlepaths.*

Have you seen the interactions between horses and drivers?!
It’s not ‘catastrophising’ when you’ve seen the dangerous interactions first hand and horses visibly frightened time and time again, it isn’t fair on the horse and it isn’t fair on drivers either as the horses can cause serious accidents.

I am aware, I am an ex rider..

Anything is better than the road.
It isn’t worth the risk.

Where I live now, you often see riders in wooded areas and fields and on footpaths to get to aforementioned fields and wooded areas.

If you genuinely have no where safe to exercise your horse without accessing the road then I would argue that perhaps you shouldn’t have one.

It isn’t about the horses ‘right’, it’s a safety and welfare issue.

I've ridden on the road for years and years and have never seen a confused and frightened horse. Mine stepped back once when some nob shot past and that's it. I've had 11 horses and ponies over the last 20 years and they've all been good on the roads. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but if you have a good horse then that is the most you can do. If someone wants to drive in a way that might frighten a horse then that makes them a twat, doesn't mean horses shouldn't be on the road.

No, but we have a responsibility as parents to teach them that some behaviours are rude and not appropriate. OP seems not to have got this memo.

But she said it was the first time it had happened so she was unprepared for it. And her 6 year old was perfectly polite.

I think some of you are determined to make the OP in as bad a light as possible. She's actually been reasonable, said she now understood and will be more careful in future. What more do you want from her???

I'd rather encourage my daughter to be outspoken, creative and curious rather than the demure, silent bore that some posters seem to prefer.

The lady didn't have to fawn over your dd or have a perfect teaching moment with her. She could have literally ignored her, moved away and gone on with her day. Now if your child had gone up to the random woman to talk at her, I agree that would be misbehaviour. Not yelling at someone level, maybe roll eyes at annoying kid level. People seem to be missing the part where the woman was really close in your daughter's space.

Taking issue over something a tiny 3 year old says is batshit.

‘I’ve ridden on the road for years and years and have never seen a confused and frightened horse’

As it should be!

But unfortunately in a lot of areas this is not the case.
I think perhaps you’ve been lucky in the areas you’ve ridden.

Motorists frightening horses (and abusing riders) is unfortunately pretty common though and although I agree in principle that the horse has every right to be there and that really, they shouldn’t be pushed off so motorists can misbehave I think sometimes you have to weigh up pros and cons and generally, for most of the UK I think horses are much safer off the road.

Ditto for cyclists.

you have to weigh up pros and cons and generally, for most of the UK I think horses are much safer off the road.

Ditto for cyclists.

I tend to think that the more people who cycle instead of driving, the safer it makes the roads. So although I completely understand your logic, this^^ wouldn’t make me think that people simply shouldn’t cycle or ride on the roads. Really, more of us should not be driving everywhere. If anything has to give, I think he onus should be on drivers.

Tbh my horse is more scared of cyclists overtaking him than cars. I think he thinks the buzzing noise is a giant fly

If I beat myself up about every criticism I’ve had in 21 years of parenting 5 children I’d be an anxious house bound mess by now. Yes I’ve brushed off some posters I disagree with. I’ll apologise for a bit, but there’s also a point where you can’t adapt constantly to everyone else’s views, whims and ways without becoming inconsistent and weak in parenting. My daughter can’t be submissive, confident, good at activities, meek, bright, silent and just right all the time. That’s ok, it doesn’t mean she’s a horrible child or I’m a shit mum, we are human, quite average and generally aim to do the right thing. Whatever people think of her, I know her intent was not malicious or even questioning so I don’t really have a big issue. Also... I’ve been toughened a bit by an autistic sibling with learning difficulties, so I guess I am reasonably robust with criticism by now.

Overall my kids have no issues in many many interactions, overall my 3 yr old is pleasant but makes the odd clueless comment. She has no real actual opinion on the horses on road debate. I don’t. I’ve never lived in the English countryside, sat on a horse and rarely in my life have I driven near one. I’m not sure my three yr old ever has.

I stand by thinking this woman, and some posters on here, are frankly over-stressed and looking for conflict where there is none. However that’s a good enough reason for me to keep more of an eye out for these types and keep the kids away. I didn’t grow up in this world, middle class England, I don’t know the common debates and areas of tension and I rarely have need to interact with them.

If you really want to read into me, my philosophy and what we’re like- I haven’t risen to any insults or goading in this thread. I don’t feel the need, I don’t look for conflict and if you disagree with me I wish you well and happiness in however you’re doing your own thing. Being different to me or thinking differently is fine.

To point out the absolute obvious, to really be clear, I know my just three year old isn’t socially aware. None of my kids showed a sign of this until around age 4-6. From my observation that’s pretty common. She has few social skills, we’re still at the consistently not seeing al fresco for no reason stage if anyone needs a reference point.

I’m horrified by how many people seem to think the 3 year old is learning it from a parent. My eldest at age 4 once came running out of school so I open my arms for a big hug for him to say “no don’t hit me!” At full volume for people to stare at us in horror. While I’m stood there wondering why on Earth my son thinks I would hit him.

My youngest at age 5 told everyone she had a sister but it was a secret because she didn’t live with us.

Kids come out with all sorts!

This 3 year old could’ve heard an adult saying “we slow down wen passing horses so that we don’t scare them” and taken that to mean horses don’t go on the road because cars scare them.

Just like I have always explained to my children that they never approach and pet a dog they don’t know unless an adult tells them it’s ok because some dogs don’t like strangers petting them and can bite. My eldest is fantastic with animals and he has been begging for a dog for years. My youngest is terrified because she thinks almost any strange dog will bite her.

Kids come up with things all by themselves or take in about 2 words of a whole sentence and make a completely new one in their heads. This woman was very touchy to be starting a fight over something a toddler was saying. A 10 year old then yeah sure maybe she would have a point but 3?!

I suppose according to the rules of Miss Manners, your child should not have commented on the woman's actions, whether with regard to horses or anything else. However, 3-year-olds don't always, or even often, obey the rules of Miss Manners! (I am told that when I was a similar age, or even a year or so older, I was in a shop, when someone remarked that she would be 'proud' to own a certain coat, and I commented self-righteously that 'Pride comes before a fall!') And children get phrases from all sorts of places: older siblings; the neighbours; nursery; TV; etc. - not just their parents. It sounds to me as though this woman got on her high horse (pun intended) because she had had trouble with drivers in the past, and was taking it out on you and your daughter. Not very fair of her; but some people are like that! I don't ride horses, but I'm also not a driver; and occasionally I do feel frustrated when people act as though everybody drives. But I hope that I would never be so insecure about it, as to take it out on a small child!

Amazed at some of the responses on here and I’m guessing many of you don’t have children. For anyone to be offended by anything said by a 3 year old is frankly ridiculous (unless the 3 year old tells you to go eff yourself). 3 year olds come up with all sorts of random stuff and it’s shocking to me that somebody would take something like this as an indicator of bad parenting.

Shrug it off - her issues not yours

jessebuni: I am also told that at a similar age to your son, I did EXACTLY the same thing - my Mum was so embarrassed, and there was absolutely no basis for my saying it; though in those days, it was commoner for parents (not mine, though) to hit their kids, so I suppose I might have seen it happening to another child.

JuniperGinYay. I really feel for you! People have no right to be so rude and as for being so aggressive and rude about such a little child's comment! What a presumptuous pompous git!

I had a friend, sadly he died, who used to say benignly, "You just bumped into an awkward person" as if it had come on to rain for a bit, and somehow I felt so much better. He had a way of saying it that made the awkward person sound like a stupid person who was not at all normal or important and did not know how to behave while we are decent and polite and just take no notice of these people. I miss him! I somehow can't restore my equilibrium in the same way as he could or how he would have helped me to!

Oh! On things children say: Friend was at new neighbour's with her 4 yr old. Neighbour childless seemed prim and proper. 4 yr old started to get irritable and not satisfied with toys brought with them to keep her amused. Gets noisy. Mother tells her not to shout it is bad manners etc. 4 yr old, completely out of the blue starts to cry and wails: "Don't lock me in the cupboard under the stairs again mummy! Please don't lock me in the cupboard under the stairs!" I know for fact my friend never did! Her cupboard was too full of junk anyway!

I've got a 4.5 year old. Yes she does come out with some silly and inane comments to me and others sometimes - no idea how, why or where she gets some of them from! Sometimes she even argues back her point as your DD did today. Nothing wrong in that to a degree and you were away from her but within earshot.

However, I would have had afterwards a short word with her re rude/impertinent/arguing comments towards an adult and told her not to do it again.

Your DD did have a point though! And yes, I totally agree with you - I've had the misfortune to mix before I had DC with some upper class mums where I worked etc (and in Chelsea) and bloody hell - the sheer rudeness and entitlement which came off them was appalling so I can totally get that your DD encountered a prickly character.

We were at older sister's senior school concert. I was sitting in front row with youngest aged about 5 next to me. Music concert with separate pieces. End of slow moving piece. Atmosphere filled silent pause as Conductor raises baton. Cristal clear child's voice from front:
"Is it time to go home now?"

rumblings and snuffling as stifled laughs eventually erupt and whole hall is laughing. Atmosphere wrecked for haunting melodramatic music.