to ask why are we not rioting?

[CanILeavenowplease]

our political system is in chaos....we have a PM who has lost vote after vote...a useless Opposition....no one seems to know what they're doing and if any thread on here is indicative of anything, there is considerable support for no-deal and considerable support for dropping the matter altogether...why are we not rioting? seriously? I don't understand why we are sitting passively by and watching this shower of shite happen/not happen?

[zoellafortitude]

Things are changing quickly at the grassroots. You wouldn’t know it to watch the bbc studiously ignoring all forms of this kind of ‘news’, but it is happening all over Europe. It is unsettling to say the least

So true! I have moved away from the BBC for news recently.

I was fascinated to read this recently:

www.axios.com/italy-belt-and-road-initiative-xi-jinping-rome-701c6f53-9637-4f4a-b4bb-0a6140410417.html

What to watch: Italy is expected to break with most other advanced economies by formally signing onto Beijing's $1.3 trillion global Belt and Road (BRI) infrastructure initiative.

Brussels and Washington don't like it at all, because they fear that if Italy takes loans from China, it could end up in a dangerous web of debt that exposes it to pressure from Beijing.

After all, Italy is already Europe's second-most indebted country, and unlike much smaller economies like Greece, a systemic crisis there could unravel the entire Eurozone.

The bottom line: The decision of the bloc's fourth largest economy to embrace Beijing has just opened up a major new fault line within Europe.

[QueenOfTheCroneAge]

I'm wondering now if anything will kick off on Friday?

[GoFiguire]

We won’t start rioting until Waitrose runs out of hummous.

[Springwalk]

zoella I have stopped watching BBC or Sky for news for a while now, there is no news on either channel. It is just simply an agenda that is be churned out (usually anti brexit, pro middle labour) and they are simply not covering the 'real' news in any detail at all.

So the majority of the country are being force fed the 'agenda' under the guise of neutrality. It is anything but neutral, we have seen that in technicolour, and more worrying many people simply have no idea whatsoever of what is really going on.

When they do wake up they may feel their fragile grip on their world view is called into question. They may feel betrayed, and certainly angry.

The EU has just gone into recession, right the way across the entire continent with few exceptions, have we heard about that, and the ramifications for the UK? No we have not.

[IndigoSpritz]

I remember the Poll Tax riots and before those, we had Brixton, Toxteth and Handsworth. Very ugly. Why anybody would want repeats of those I do not know.

[zoellafortitude]

Springwalk

Agree with you absolutely!

[Springwalk]

indigo

Thats the point, nobody wants riots, but many may feel they have no other option, as they have not be listened to and democracy has been abandoned.

It is not always a choice.

Revolution can happen in all kinds of ways. At the moment the country is on a collusion course.

[Springwalk]

Collision, although maybe collusion is the better word for it.....

[Shitty]

I agree brexit means brexit

[S1naidSucks]

Do the leavers take ANY responsibility for what’s happening? You voted leave without giving a shit about NI and how the troubles could be reignited. Some actually came on this site to tell us that it was our tough luck and if we riot or the scum with guns kill or harm someone, it’s because we’re all thugs that don’t know how to live in a civilised society. Now they’re on here saying that if we remain or don’t get the deal they want, then it’s remainers fault if the leavers riot. Grow the fuck up and take some responsibility.

[Springwalk]

Remainers go incredibly silent when we talk about the consequences of overthrowing democracy.

They know deep down that this is the most terrible thing that they can do to our country, they know they are essentially causing this situation to unfold by refusing to accept the democratic choice of the people of this country. They know the outcome will be devastating to our country, far worse than a no deal brexit with a mini deals with the EU. But they continue on....

If the MPs and the remainers are going to overthrow the result of the referendum then they have to be prepared for the consequences of their actions. I don't say this lightly, as I say this with good authority that we as a country will never come back from that.

[theresafoxunderthedecking]

1930's germany comes to mind and a particular person who wanted more land for the german people comes to mind - sudentenland and the austrians nazis riotting, look how that ended up. 'eva, might be home late, am annexing poland'.
the eu is very unsettled at the moment with the italian/ bejing thing, i'll be very glad to be out of it.

[ItsAllGone19]

@theresafoxunderthedecking no they don't but riots mean destruction/extra security. Destruction/extra security means someone has to pay for it to be fixed, the wealthy can swoop in and tender for the contracts because they haven't been bankrupt by the riots. The elite always come out on top except during the French revolution but I sincerely hope nobody is suggesting that's a great idea!

[ItsAllGone19]

Remainers go incredibly silent when we talk about the consequences of overthrowing democracy.

They know deep down that this is the most terrible thing that they can do to our country, they know they are essentially causing this situation to unfold by refusing to accept the democratic choice of the people of this country. They know the outcome will be devastating to our country, far worse than a no deal brexit with a mini deals with the EU. But they continue on....

If the MPs and the remainers are going to overthrow the result of the referendum then they have to be prepared for the consequences of their actions. I don't say this lightly, as I say this with good authority that we as a country will never come back from that.

You really don't understand the meaning of democracy!

[QueenOfTheCroneAge]

Leavers believed the misinformation spouted by leave politicians. The Government had no actual plan in place for it. Now the public are better educated on the issue, and should be given a second chance to have a more informed vote.

[Bluntness100]

brexit means brexit

This is the daftest statement there is doing the rounds, the whole issue is brexit means something different to everyone, there are many types of brexit and they fundamentally have to agree on one.

If you really mean, brexit means any brexit, then I think uou will find the majority of the adult British population are not in support of this, and neither is the House of Commons, and last time I looked we live in a democracy,

This is the issue with having an ill informed referendum, which doesn't clarify what brexit is, or what It did clarify brexit to be is now fundamentally proven to be erroneous on all levels.

[Springwalk]

Itsallgone

I will put this to you in very simple language. Democracy works in this way: We all vote, the vote with the highest majority wins. Simple. I am not sure you understand to be fair, even though it is very very simple.

[theresafoxunderthedecking]

its no i'm saying there is potentially civil unrest in europe as well as the uk, the uncertainty of brexit isn't helping but there has always been problems. if another couple of countries left the eu would probably collasp anyway. what is if we said and three countries said 'right, we are leaving' there wouldn't be a an eu to worry about, as i've said before each country will look after it's own interests. the italian / china deal is going to cause a sesmic shift if it goes a head

[theresafoxunderthedecking]

*what if we stayed

[theresafoxunderthedecking]

ignore italy /bejing comment - bit out of date -

[Springwalk]

Italy is moving very very far away from the EU with a very right wing, anti EU party now in power. It is being held to financial ransom but will find other ways out (ie Bejing and Russia)

Greece is also an unwilling EU member, forced to stay, but will be liberated at some point, it can't come quick enough for the Greeks.

Poland, Hungry and all the baltic states have anti EU billboards all over their countries, I was amazed at the level of anti EU sentiment in Budapest.
Netherlands now have far right majority.
Sweden are in a state of flux as they have the same issue.

There are many other countries that we see this rising across the EU.

This is not just the UK by any means. Even the Germans had riots last weekend because they wanted to leave the EU.....what does that say?

The EU Commission have not listened to the people for a very long time. They are still singing with their fingers in their ears but for how much longer?

[Springwalk]

itsallgone The french revolution is precisely where this will end up without some robust action. You are deluded to think otherwise.

[DolorestheNewt]

Springwalk I'll engage with that, though it will only be with my own opinion. I believe it is a significant step to overturn the result of the referendum. But I don't believe it's the end of democracy. I think it could possibly signal more theoretical (i.e. less Brexit-centered) discussions on the nature of democracy and its limitations. It may lead to a refined definition of democracy.
My suggestion for kicking off such debates would be:
should democracy be overturned if it can be argued with a reasonable degree of certainty that to enact the democratic decision would be deeply damaging to the country?
Can you and should you fetishize democracy beyond reason? (Much the same thing, just a different way of putting it)
If attempts to observe a democratic vote run aground, after how much time does it become reasonable to state that having another vote is not overthrowing democracy, it's just exercising further democracy?
Is democracy defined only and absolutely by enacting a decision made in each and every circumstance or is it a bit more complicated than that?
Are advisory referendums really part of democracy, or are they a thought exercise?

I'm well aware I'm really circling around the same argument. But didn't want to leave Spring's assertion that no-one's prepared to discuss the consequences of overthrowing democracy (nice bit of question-begging, by the way) unchallenged. I'm sure lots of people are prepared to.

[Hotterthanahotthing]

It's too nice weather to waste it on rioting,and rioting for what?
I haven't a lot of faith in our politicians who will put 10 new options and nothing will be picked as an outright winner.
I'm thinking the best of a bad bunch would be a Canada/Norway 2.Not ideal by any means but out and room for improvement later on,and we can watch what becomes of the EU a little more at arm's length.

[NameChanger22]

So, the solution to chaos is even more chaos? Hardly anybody knows what's going on, we're all just waiting to see what happens. I don't know one single person that would be willing to riot over Brexit.