For those who would never let a baby cry it out. What's mu next option?

[BoobiesToTheRescue]

Bedtime at 6.30pm last night. He was exhausted and I couldn't make it much later by 11.15pm he had woken between 10-15 times, roughly every 15 minutes. The rest of the night was horrific. Nights have been mainly horrific most of his life.
He's 13 weeks breast feeding and I've eliminated all top allergy food groups for 2 months now.

He's breastfed and I've followed a routine by Little Ones so I know he's getting a near-as-damnit good amount of sleep during the day.
So I've tried:

-making very sure he's not over or under tired
-sleep cues, darkness, white noise, swaddle
-strict bath and bed wind down routine
-feeding to sleep (refuses to feed after a while)
-patting a shushing
-rocking to sleep
-cuddle to sleep
-buggy/car seat (the second the movement stops he's awake).
-co-sleeping
-own cot
-swing chair
-meds for reflux
-pain meds in case it was teething or other pain
-raising the mattress
-swaddle
-checked room temperature
-dry nappy

• skin is good, no hair tourniquets
• dummy (rejects)
• clothes that smell like me

-muslin with my milk I've tried more besides these are just the obvious one

Last night I'd exhausted every avenue, he won't sleep on me so just getting up and sitting in the rocking chair with him doesn't work.
Eventually I lay next him him with him crying and he fell asleep.
Then he woke 2 mins later and cried again. So that doesn't even work.

This is absolute hell.

7.7kg at 13 weeks? What was his birthweight? (Sorry if this has been asked)
EBM in a bottle?

But I think you're probably right the formula/bottle suggestions are a red herring. I would probably try it once - a bottle of ready made or EBM - but if it made no difference, not persist with it. I'd also be concerned about the dairy and other ingredients in formula if allergies are suspected.

verynice the most likely thing he would be allergic to is cows milk protein. Can you imagine how much worse he would be on formula? He's already showing signs of allergies. My other son nearly died of anaphylaxis when we gave him his first introduction of cows milk.
So that's a pretty big reason not to try FF.

BertieBots can you link me to that? I'm a student nurse and so very tempted to my dissertation in this area. It interests me a lot.

foxfox we have one and it's great. Only issue is the battery life is awful and it switches off after 30 minutes.

Also - could my coffee intake cause his reflux?
The worse his reflux, the more I drink coffee.

I did cut that out too but it didn't improve at all and I think I nearly died from tiredness.

I feel for you. I've been there with DD1. She had milk and egg allergy. Elimination from both our diets (I know you are on this) plus Piriton helped.

She also had a traumatic birth with facial injuries. I think she may have been in pain. Might be worth trying paracetamol for a couple of nights to see if pain is an issue.

I also had a very strong supply, which I feel.upset her tummy a bit. If you think this could be an issue try block feeding (alternate breasts every 2 hours rather than every feed. That should help get the richer milk out).

And yes, it does pass. She's a great sleeper aged 7, and was an ok sleeper a lot younger than that.

kellymom.com/nutrition/starting-solids/solids-sleep/

This is an article to suggest the formula feeding a baby at night myth has been debunked when a baby is EBF, the upset tummy is what I experienced when trying it. I have read that early weaning has helped though and private paediatricians in the U.K. have been suggesting it to help with reflux. I think it’s only from 17 weeks though so too early for the OP.

I found cutting out caffeine helped, imo anyway. Sorry!

Have not rtft sorry, best things for me, a cranial osteopath and carobel for silent reflux. You can get it on special order in boots.
It's really hard, sorry you're going through this.

How about speaking to doc or paed about dairy free formula. Surely it’s worth a try and using a slow flow test would stop some of the other issues you’ve had. But if you’re completely against FF then not sure

*teat

I'll see what I can dig out.

all I can say is video it and take the video to the dr.

goodness I thought dd was bad. and it was hell, but not as hell as yours.

do you have other children?
I think you may need to get some other adult help so you can sleep in shifts.

talk to remap about making something that will rock longer?

So far I feel the sleep consultant has been the best money I've spent, though it hasn't fixed the issue yet, but it's made me feel more confident we know what the problem is. I've been to the GP, public health nurse, numerous times and everyone says because she isn't screaming and is putting on weight - if anything, too much weight- it can't be reflux. Which I've always suspected was bollocks but now feel more confident in that, and the sleep consultant pointed out all the little signs she's showing so I feel I can go back in with a clearer list, plus be able to demonstrate the steps we've taken with an elimination diet etc.

As you know yourself, hope and certainty feel almost as good as sleep right now! Even if they're a bit premature. The sleep consultant has also said she'll continue to talk to us while we're getting the reflux sorted and that we'll ultimately fix the sleep too. There's family history of allergies here too, which is why I'm so frustrated about not catching this earlier, and I'm hoping to ask for a Pediatric referral as I'm not sure what to do about weaning if there's an egg and milk allergy but I've only cut things out a few weeks earlier. My priority is ensuring there aren't any long term effects for her as both her dad and I have limited diets in one way or another and I'd like to avoid that for her if we can.

I should add, for unconnected reasons she had quite a few doses of antibiotics when she was tiny and we think that may have negatively effected her gut too.

I know I had bad digestive issues for years after living overseas and catching a number of bugs: I spent a long time waiting to be 'diagnosed' with whatever was causing it but in the end it turned out to be multiple things working together: all the antibiotics I had taken left me lactose intolerant, I also had a sensitivity to soy I'd never know about because prior to having issues with dairy I'd never eaten much soy, and all he infections I'd had had left damage in my gut that took years to heal. I'm fine now but it really took fine tuning and time to recover for it to come right and I suspect it's something similar here- a bit of allergy/sensitivity, maybe in your case a bit of a negative association resulting in part from the oversupply, and good old fashioned reflux that may respond to a particular mix of drugs that it's hard to figure out.

What's tough is it's basically a puzzle and you're being asked to work it out at your lowest tiredest point. But have confidence you'll get there, and if paying for support is possible for You- be it a lactation consultant, sleep consultant, private dietician referral- I am happy we did so because once you have someone whose opinion you trust it makes it a bit easier.

I found the EATS study by kings college!!
This is huge for me! I can wean early without worrying that I've caused allergies!

Chewy hand smile to say thanks for everyone's help.
I'm so grateful.

Is baby feeding every time he wakes?? My youngest was bf and he was a terrible sleeper! I remember the midwife telling me in the hospital the night he was born ‘oh he likes a suck this one’ and she wasn’t wrong he boobed every 2 hours through the night until he was 13 months and I put my foot down! He did eventually take a dummy through the day which helped but wouldn’t at night which was very frustrating as it was purely for comfort not for hunger! The only thing that helped us was co sleeping, I didn’t wear a top and he just latched in through the night when he needed boob, it wasn’t ideal but it meant I actually got some rest! We tried all the things you’ve tried also, I even took him to the doctor and basically told them he was broken, my GP looked at me like I was a crazy lady, there was absolutely nothing wrong with him!

My life savers for my son (now 8 Months) that didn't sleep are:

Sleepyhead (£130, yes steep but worth every penny). Look at some reviews online, it's done us so well we have just paid £205 for the next one up. My son just loves being cosy and cocooned.

Ewan the sheep. My son cannot sleep unless he hears white noise and the heart beat setting. We too have a mobile which surprisingly soothes him at times too.

Co-sleeping. I know I know some people will say it's dangerous but I had no other option at times especially when he's clingy or unwell. It depends on the sort of person you are too. I made sure I read all about I before doing it, no pillows around or big blankets and I too am a very light sleeper so if my son moves then I wake up.

Honestly sometimes skin to skin still and cuddles just settles him off straight away. We just spent 2 nights on a children's ward and he had his own cot and I had a pull out bed he would only sleep if he was in the bed with me. This was very small though so I layed there till he fell asleep and sat in the chair so be had the bed to himself. I didn't get any sleep but knowing he did was worth it.

Good luck! You seem to be doing a great job it's just really hard at times.

Coffee is awful for reflux, OP.

Sounds utterly shit to me. Personally I would give the max dose of ranitidine, add in gaviscon and switch to dairy free formula - it’s the only way you can truly rule our allergies. You’d need to give it a 2 week trial though so would have to pump to maintain your supply in the meantime.

Coffee is awful for reflux, OP.

Fuck. I drank loads yesterday. 😮

My son was like this including the choking/dribbling/gagging. He was also a hefty beast of a baby. He napped fine in the day but only for 30 minutes. At night his sleep was very restless. It was awful. I tried everything but the following things seemed to work.

I gave up breastfeeding and switched to formula (HiPP) and Dr. Brown's bottles. This helped with wind and formula being thicker seemed to stay down more.

Winding for AGES and holding him upright for 20 minutes after a feed.

I accepted 30 minute naps were the norm and scheduled our day around them. At that age we aimed for awake times of 1.5 or 2 hours and an awake time of 2.5 hours before bedtime at 7.

Swaddling in a Miracle Blanket at night.

Putting him to sleep on his tummy made a massive, massive difference. My GP advised this.

I really hope things improve for you. It's so tough!

Lots cited here - I don't have access to all, probably as a current student you might. I've linked to the section with all the citations. This is all post 2008 which was the most recent change in guidance, before the US shift in 2017, anyway - I can't find exactly when the guidance changed in other countries, I know it hasn't in the UK, but I know the "avoid allergens (in pregnancy and post weaning)" to "don't avoid allergens except before 6 months" change occurred some time between 2003, when my brother was born and my stepmum avoided absolutely everything, and 2008 when my DS1 was born.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6157280/#Sec4title

Just because I live in Germany and try to keep up with the various advice - in fact it hasn't changed officially in Germany yet either - they simply recommend high risk allergy children see an allergy specialist before starting solids, and use a properly hypoallergenic formula if not breastfed - HA formula is common in Germany but is not well regulated. A new EU regulation is changing this, but won't come in force until 2020.

Oh, yes :) the EATS study was mentioned there.

Thank you Bertie I will be reading that this afternoon.

I could have just looked myself of course but I wondered if there was a specific place you found the study. As it is, I found it almost instantly!

Could oversupply be the issue? Kelly mom has great advice on this and I think GP’s are quick at diagnosing reflux when in fact it’s oversupply