For those who would never let a baby cry it out. What's mu next option?

[BoobiesToTheRescue]

Bedtime at 6.30pm last night. He was exhausted and I couldn't make it much later by 11.15pm he had woken between 10-15 times, roughly every 15 minutes. The rest of the night was horrific. Nights have been mainly horrific most of his life.
He's 13 weeks breast feeding and I've eliminated all top allergy food groups for 2 months now.

He's breastfed and I've followed a routine by Little Ones so I know he's getting a near-as-damnit good amount of sleep during the day.
So I've tried:

-making very sure he's not over or under tired
-sleep cues, darkness, white noise, swaddle
-strict bath and bed wind down routine
-feeding to sleep (refuses to feed after a while)
-patting a shushing
-rocking to sleep
-cuddle to sleep
-buggy/car seat (the second the movement stops he's awake).
-co-sleeping
-own cot
-swing chair
-meds for reflux
-pain meds in case it was teething or other pain
-raising the mattress
-swaddle
-checked room temperature
-dry nappy

• skin is good, no hair tourniquets
• dummy (rejects)
• clothes that smell like me

-muslin with my milk I've tried more besides these are just the obvious one

Last night I'd exhausted every avenue, he won't sleep on me so just getting up and sitting in the rocking chair with him doesn't work.
Eventually I lay next him him with him crying and he fell asleep.
Then he woke 2 mins later and cried again. So that doesn't even work.

This is absolute hell.

OP you have my full sympathies. My first was like this, it was torture. It was multiple food allergies that took me 9 months to fully understand. I'm talking everything dairy, soya, fruit, gluten would give her pain and she would scream. We also found out at 1 she had asthma and I'm sure that encouraged the crying!

Like you formula would have changed nothing, she wasn't hungry and I produced loads of milk.

Have you tried a foam wedge under the head of the mattress? This helps raise their head which can help reflux. Does he sleep better on you than lying down?

Controlled crying at that age is savage, I think you have to wait till 6 months? We tried it and around 8 months, it never worked for us.

Overtime it did get better but I survived by begging family to take her do I could nap in the day and I would nap at weekends when DH was home.

I had similar waking constantly issues and ds was basically in pain mainly from cmpa but also wind, reflux and he only pooed weekly and other foods I ate caused him trouble.
It’s very difficult to think logically and problem solve whilst sleep deprived.
Get some prescription formula and hand him over to someone else for a night or part of the night so you can sleep. This is what I had to do. I couldn’t cure the pain or the screaming so I had to get some sleep to cope.

Babies need time to get used to stuff so I would pick one thing (co-sleeping, swing chair or shush and pat with white noise would be top 3)

The swing chairs have been used once in the last 2 months. Just needed to check he still hated them. He does.

He's had white noise all his life - consistent if nothing else! It drowns out the noise of his brothers and it's a good keep cue. The patting and shushing has been used all his life. It works really well, he likes it.
Shame he doesn't actually stay asleep once it's worked!
He's been in my bed since the beginning, and we have had a strict bedtime routine since he was 3 weeks old.

So I have been very consistent with some things.

And to the person who suggested controlled crying. I did this with both mine and it worked so I'm not against it but no way would I do it at 13 weeks. Far too young. I would wait til at least 6months. Mine were both 12months.

My middle son has multiple food allergies and this baby is showing all the signs.

But if I've restricted my diet right back, can this still be to blame?

IS it pain?

I'm constantly tooing and frowing between "arse hole baby?" Or "baby in pain?"

OP this sounds horrendous.
It sounds awful for the baby too. I think you should take him to the GP as there's obviously something wrong.
Do you have someone to take a shift and let you sleep?
My 2nd baby couldn't lie down ever from reflux and did do well with a swinging chair thing.
Does he cry a lot in the day? When is he happiest in the day?

He sleeps fine during the day but just not at night? Is there anything different? How many naps and for how long?

13 weeks is too young for any form of sleep training. At this age my baby was only on 45-60 mins awake time, but that's not true for all babies.

You seem to have tried anything I could suggest. At this age there were lots of times where I just swaddled and rocked into a deep sleep (like I'd count to 300 before putting down).

How is he feeding? Is he content during feeds? Does he take a bottle of expressed milk any easier? I had an overactive let down and it caused alot of colic type symptoms, although the good news is that it got better after around 3 months.

I know it must not seem like it, but this will pass and get better soon.

It sounds like you're doing such a great job, despite being at the end of your tether! What are his naps like during the day? How long does he sleep for?

Ok. I have read the OP. Your exhausted, poor you!

My advice on what I would do next f(and I had a similar one) is stop putting him down so early. Some can go longer than 2 hours awake. He sounds uncomfortable and still a bit colicky, to me.

13 weeks is awfully soon for a routine and bedtimes, in my experience.

I would sit on the sofa with him upright sleeping on you and put the tv on. Then do a night feed before you go to bed around 9/10. Do some epic winding!

At 13 weeks my husband still had to wang him in a sling and walk for an hour or so at 6pm! Second baby basically was only comfortable if he was sleeping on me!

In my experience, getting them to sleep on you/with you is easier to deal with in the future.

You've probably tried it but get rid of the routine, he's still tiny.

Lastly. I would express and give a bottle or a bottle of formula or your partner or someone who can help and let them sit up with him whilst you snatch some early evening sleep.

Sleep for you is now more important than whether he's taking the breast/breast milk.

My tuppence worth.

Oh OP
I feel for you because I have a terrible sleeper.
Dummy was refused as was anything else.
He started to sleep through at 2 years old.
By 18 months we would still have 5 wakes and the first year could be up 10 times a night, or sleep for 30 mins stretches
I didnt want to do sleep training as I dont agree with it for us. The hardest time of my life.
I wish I could help you, I really do.
Hug.

Also he slept in a next2me in a purflo sleep old thing. The next2me was good as you can so set it on an incline. We had it on the steepest setting.

Have you tried a sleepyhead to make him feel more enclosed but not too wrapped up? Is he having a couple of good naps during the daytime? My DS was awake nearly all day by 13 weeks, but I always made sure he had a good nap morning & afternoon otherwise we had the night from hell with him. Maybe look at your daytime routine instead, other than naps & feeding times try putting him on a blanket on the floor with toys, tummy time, let him kick off some of his energy. I know you don't want to FF, but if it meant that you could get a nights sleep it would be worth a try.

He HATES feeding. He endures feeding and doesn't like my boobs.

I have an overactive letdown and he chokes and gags. Perhaps I need to get back into winding him, he usually brings it up himself with no help from me (he used to need a lot of help from me especially when his reflux was bad).
We were at the GP on Friday, we really have been.

He sleeps ok during the day but will wake up every half an hour and need help to go back to sleep.

So really, it's no better than night times but I'm awake and ok with the situation.

If it was reflux that's still is the issue then I wonder why the swing chairs have never worked?
He really really hates them.

One of my GS's had silent reflux and he did not settle until the consultant prescribed omeprazole. He had gavison and ranitidine which helped a little bit but not at night. The omeprazole was like magic, although it took a couple of weeks to really kick in and heal his stomach, the difference was such a relief.

During the day he would be sitting or propped up or upright in a jumperoo, all health and safety out of the window his DM put a step underneath him as he was still too small for his feet to touch the floor, but he loved being in there.

He didn't like the swing seat, don't know if the motion regurgitated the acid. At night or lying down he was in too much pain. Sometimes he slept in his pram for longer periods as the mattress could be raised, then my DD bought a wedge so he slept propped up. Never mind not using a pillow he just could not lie flat.

He also used to kick but he would often arch his back or throw himself backwards. It was absolutely exhausting for both him and his parents (and us when we used to have him so that she could just sleep)

My baby who was like this slept on his tummy.

I use this for awake times

www.mybabysleepguide.com/2013/02/average-sleep-charts-by-age.html?m=1

It suggests an awake time of up to 90 minutes. I would put down for another nap and later bedtime. It might be that 6.30 for nighttime bed is too early.

Personally, I’d start trying to settle after an hour awake time and go from there. It’s easier to catch the sweet spot if you start earlier rather than later.

I know you’ve tried all the dummies but just in case, one dc liked the nuk dummies.

The 5 s’s:

Swaddle
Side or stomach
Shush
Suck
Swing

Saying all that, if your instinct is that something is wrong, be persistent and keep hounding your doctor.

With DD2 I introduced more mixed feeding earlier on and eventually she seemed to enjoy the bottle more than the breast, I think she was particularly hungry and couldn't wait for the longer time it took for the breast milk. Just an idea.

Oh, OP, you have my sympathies. My first was like this. It was utter, utter torture. Mine also would only nap for 30 mins in the day every two hours, only after vigorous bouncing in his bouncer. For the first 5 months he slept in his bouncer, and gradually gradually we eventually managed to get him to sleep in his cot, but it was such hard work. He still woke every hour to two hours for the first year and a half, sob.

If you're really concerned if it might be allergies for him, take him to his GP. xx

I’ve done controlled crying but never before 5/6 months.

Sounds just like my DC1 who had colic and cried most of the day (and night) until 4 months old. I tried everything. People who have non-colicky babies don’t realise their advice doesn’t work.

Honestly just stop all the different tactics and mentally prepare to ride it out. There’s a 4 month sleep regression which is brutal and then things will start to improve. Good luck.

Overactive let down was awful in my experience! My baby cried all day every day from about 6 to 11.5 weeks old. I used to have to feed him lying down with him on top of me. And yes I had to wind him obsessively, probably until past the 4 month mark. I used to support his head and move his body round in circles. He was also on ranitidine for reflux, which was caused by this. I think people really don't realise the problems it can cause.

Like I said, it did get significantly better after about 3 months. He was bigger and could feed better, and his digestive system could cope more with the rush of foremilk it got every time. Now at 9 months I am still feeding him, and the boob that had the strongest let down is now his favourite. In retrospect it was all so bloody miserable, but I was so concerned with wanting to breastfeed, I wish I'd just given him bottles even of expressed milk to see if it made a difference.

I can sympathise 100% as my eldest was like this. Someone upthread mentioned a cranial osteopath and I wish wish wish I could go back in time and do this. DS had a difficult entry into the world, he got stuck on the way out, and I'm sure looking back his head hurt but I was too sleep,deprived and anxious to think about it logically. Good luck.

Oh blimey, you are having a rough time ! You are doing an amazing job of trying to help your baby. Have you considered that oversupply might be the root of the problem? This article is very thorough, and if some of it sounds relevant it might be worth trying some of her suggestions or seeing a lactation consultant. www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com/twitter-and-blog/youve-got-so-much-milk-youre-so-lucky-no-im-bloody-not-oversupply-colic-and-reflux
I BF my three, two of whom had food allergies so I understand the overlap between symptoms in these cases, and I suspect it would be difficult to unravel but definitely worth exploring, given your baby’s reluctance at the breast.
One final thing - others will disagree with me but I think you’re wise to avoid CIO if you can, especially for such a young baby - babies cry because they have unmet needs, and there’s growing evidence that CIO is not in the best interests of infants. That said, I can see why you might consider it as you’re clearly absolutely exhausted.

If he struggles with feeding, then seeing a really good lactation consultant could make all the difference. If you feed side to side, lying down, or with him on top, then he could control the flow better, maybe? My eldest also had feeding problems and it made everything pretty tough, honestly.

I would wind him, yeah. Indigestion is miserable even as an adult, and heartburn.

Also try baby probiotics. They can help his digestion.

Sorry if I missed any questions or good points, I'm going back to them, I'm SO grateful for the input even if it's just sympathy from others who have been there. It really helps, thank you!

Nanna - we tried omeprazole. It was liquid not mups. I've never seen a child in such pain. It was utterly horrific to witness, I don't think I could ever, ever put him through that again.
I also don't think my - now fragile - mental health could take seeing my baby scream for 12 hours or go from basically no sleep to exactly no sleep for a couple of weeks while it kicked in.

I agree that perhaps the motion of the swing chair might make it worse!

He often wakes up with a hoarse voice even if no crying has happened. That would be reflux wouldn't it?

I also notice what wakes him is his breath being taken away. Similar to the reaction when you blow in their face.
Is that reflux doing that to?

I think this is still reflux at play, isn't it?

Formula might agree with him more.