To think this isn't neglect?

[twentytimes]

3 children aged 11,5 and 4. Eldest is sometimes left alone with the little two for several hours and is on her own once a week from after school until midnight. 4 and 5 year olds have on a few occasions been left alone for up to half an hour. They have mums number and know how/who to contact if something goes wrong, nothing ever has though.

Little two are never put to bed because they don't want to. Most nights they eventually fall asleep on the sofa whilst watching tv and are either left there or carried up to bed. They're allowed to watch whatever they want, 5 year old is easily scared so doesn't but both the 4 and 11 year olds will watch adult rated films or tv programmes.

They do what they like with their appearance as long as they aren't in school or it doesn't break school rules and are overall just given a lot more trust and freedom than most children their ages. They aren't spoilt with material things and are told no but if they want to go somewhere or start a new club for example they are almost always allowed. They don't have many rules at home but are expected to follow other peoples rules and are disciplined if they break them or are rude

They are all very happy and confident children, very polite and not badly behaved. Their Mum really loves and supports them. None of them complain or are upset by any of the things I mentioned, if they ever were then Mum would change her parenting.

I know this probably isn't the best example of parenting and If I ever have children I wouldn't do the exact same but AIBU to think its just a different parenting style rather than neglect and that I don't have a moral obligation to report any of this?

This is definitely neglect. It isn’t abuse, so I suspect social services would look to help rather than remove. But it’s definitely neglect.

What? Wind up, surely? Poor kids :(

No need to be rude LordPickle. It's not OP's fault she doesn't know any better.

This is definitely neglect. It isn’t abuse

Is neglect not a form of abuse?

that is not an option an 11 year old should be given.

I think you are right when you say your own judgement and perception of what is and isn't acceptable is skewed.

It is neglect. But in your position I'd be absolutely torn. Would calling SS mean the children got removed from the home they knew, split up in care or shoved form one temp foster home to another? I'd not be at all convinced that that would be a better environment than what you describe.

Are you a neighbour or relative? I'd keep an eye on them and make it clear to them that you are there if they need help at any time for any reason.

Is neglect not a form of abuse?

Well, it’s an act of omission rather than commission. I take your point...but from what people I know who have worked in social services/paediatrics have said, it’s seen in a different way.

I would say it's neglect

Yes it is neglect. An 11 year old left alone till midnight is a terrible idea and they should never be responsible for the younger children. Imagine if something happened? How would the 11 year old deal with it? And do they not feel lonely and a bit scared when they're on their own till midnight?

This is fucking awful. It is neglect and I think you know it is otherwise you wouldn't have posted on here. Your mom should be ashamed of herself leaving a 4 and 5 year old home alone. I have a 4 year old and would not dream of leaving her home alone whether it was 1 minute or 1 hour. Anything could happen!!

Blimey

What must be going on in the house that you don’t know about? Especially considering you say this situation appears to be better then your own. I imagine there is a lot that your Mum hides from you. I was left with siblings a lot when I was younger. It had a big impact on many of my behaviours. Most notably there was no supervision of what we ate when in the house alone and I would often eat completely inappropriate meal sizes. I wish you luck when speaking to your Mum. It’s time for change.

I would not leave my 10 year old with my 5 year old, ever. If I have an errand I take the 5 yr old with me but not always the 10 yr old, he stays alone daytime only though, I wouldn't leave him at night.

My worry is you mention the 11 yr old goes to an after school club then goes home alone and is then at home until midnight alone, be very easy for someone to notice this and have bad intentions, the secure isolated property would not be in her favour then.

Absolutely pathetic ‘parenting’.

An 11y/o should not be regularly left alone til midnight & in charge of their younger siblings.

4 & 5 y/o should never be left alone, they are not capable of safeguarding themselves and accessing help appropriately, even if they have got a couple of phone numbers

All kids should have proper bedtimes, they must be exhausted. So lazy just to leave them til they fall asleep on the sofa.

None of the kids should be allowed to watch whatever they want on the TV, they may not have yet but they will access unsuitable content at some point.

Rather that have an alternative parenting style, it sounds like this person can’t be arsed to actually parent their children. I would definitely be reporting this, and letting social services decide whether it meets the threshold for neglect.

Leaving the older one in charge of the other two - not ok.

Leaving the smaller two alone for any length of time - not ok.

Borderline on leaving the 11 year old. After school till midnight is a really long time. A couple of hours until someone gets home at 6 or something maybe ok. But not that long.

11 year old can’t just make an adult decision about whether they are capable of looking after a 4 and 5 year old.

I’d never leave them all alone, never. It’s too much responsibility and at 11 they should be only just getting used to being responsible for themselves, and I wouldn’t leave an 11 year old regularly on their one until midnight.

Things like...
A child is sick
4 year old left to play with something dangerous
Getting proper dinner and food.
No one there in an emergency.
Something going wrong in the house.
11 year old getting stressed and acting inappropriately because they haven’t the maturity to deal with the kids.

And that’s just the small stuff. That will happen. What about the more extreme?

Definitely report.

Yes it's neglect. Children of neglect are often very self sufficient and independent because they have to be. This is not ok. Your mom is an adult. You do not need to talk to her about this you need to report her. They will not remove her kids they will try and give her parenting tools and tell her this is not ok.

This is how I was ‘raised’.

Complete freedom, no rules apart from not answering the door and if anyone asked, we were to say we had an adult home at all times.

I work in health care for 0-5's but my job covers a lot of social care issues and the supervision aspects of your post are most worrying to me.

The older child being left with the little ones isn't acceptable to me, no matter how mature the 11 year old is, the other children are very young and anything could happen.

The younger 2 being left alone in the house for any amount of time is neglectful and dangerous.

You briefly mentioned the children's presentation, this is certainly something we look at. Are they clean? Appropriately dressed for the weather? Are they presented well? Children who don't present well can often face bullying at school.

Sounds like there isn't much of a routine in the household and the children kind of drop wherever they are whenever they want. I'd be looking at how much sleep the children are getting and is it of a good enough quality that they are able to function and concentrate at school the next day?

Just a few bits that I noticed, certainly not the worst I've seen or anywhere close! But definitely concerning enough for me to think they need an EHA because I bet there's a lot more going on in that family than is written here! There usually is!

They are all very happy and confident children, very polite and not badly behaved. Their Mum really loves and supports them. None of them complain or are upset by any of the things I mentioned, if they ever were then Mum would change her parenting.

This makes me especially sad. It’s well behaved kids that are often ones to watch, they don’t feel safe enough to express themselves. Their mum isn’t parenting. She isn’t there to parent. SS could really help, once the mother is shown that this isn’t right, even with a parenting course this could come right and you will have really saved this family.

Don’t report and you will never forgive yourself if anything happened.

was raised much more questionably than my siblings are being which is I guess why I'm finding hard to know this is wrong because I ended up fine anyway

Well it depends I suppose whst you mean by fine, I would question it considering what you describe you think as not neglectful.

Leaving them alone is neglect - pure and simple. The rest is questionable parenting and won't prepare them for the real world.

OP I can’t believe anyone would think it’s ok for a 4 and 5 year old to be left alone. They are so little and something bad could so easily happen. Please do speak to your mum about this.

Sounds very sad really.