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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this isn't neglect?

267 replies

twentytimes · 21/03/2019 15:23

3 children aged 11,5 and 4. Eldest is sometimes left alone with the little two for several hours and is on her own once a week from after school until midnight. 4 and 5 year olds have on a few occasions been left alone for up to half an hour. They have mums number and know how/who to contact if something goes wrong, nothing ever has though.

Little two are never put to bed because they don't want to. Most nights they eventually fall asleep on the sofa whilst watching tv and are either left there or carried up to bed. They're allowed to watch whatever they want, 5 year old is easily scared so doesn't but both the 4 and 11 year olds will watch adult rated films or tv programmes.

They do what they like with their appearance as long as they aren't in school or it doesn't break school rules and are overall just given a lot more trust and freedom than most children their ages. They aren't spoilt with material things and are told no but if they want to go somewhere or start a new club for example they are almost always allowed. They don't have many rules at home but are expected to follow other peoples rules and are disciplined if they break them or are rude

They are all very happy and confident children, very polite and not badly behaved. Their Mum really loves and supports them. None of them complain or are upset by any of the things I mentioned, if they ever were then Mum would change her parenting.

I know this probably isn't the best example of parenting and If I ever have children I wouldn't do the exact same but AIBU to think its just a different parenting style rather than neglect and that I don't have a moral obligation to report any of this?

OP posts:
3dogs2cats · 21/03/2019 16:20

Hey
I do see your dilemma, if this is a lot better than the parenting you got. But it really isn’t good enough, and I guess you know that, and that’s why you asked.
If the shit hits the fan here, and it easily could, house fire, electric shock accident whatever, you will fetch up with these kids.
I speak as someone who has raised 3 additional children.

LuvSmallDogs · 21/03/2019 16:21

I wouldn’t leave my 4&5 y/o home alone for half an hour, no way! Sometimes I run out to the car park on my estate to get something being dropped off/meet someone who hasn’t been to our house before, but the car park is right outside our garden gate.

Anotherdayanotherdollar · 21/03/2019 16:22

Pop next door, not poo next door 😂😂😂
I wish mine would accept being left til I pooed!

sam221 · 21/03/2019 16:23

Please do contact social services, children are not adults!

mbosnz · 21/03/2019 16:24

God forbid, what if something fatal happened to the 4 or 5 year old? Maybe they swallowed something that caused them to choke? Or meningitis?

Would the Mum blame the 11 year old? Would the 11 year old blame themselves?

No child, and the 11 year old is very much a child, should be potentially put in such a situation.

LuvSmallDogs · 21/03/2019 16:25

And I feel awful for that 11y/o too. They’re being made too grow up way too fast. It’s not up to them to sort out young children’s fights and keep them fed and safe. I hated having to try and control my younger siblings when mum and dad were out, and they didn’t abandon me til midnight ffs.

Drogosnextwife · 21/03/2019 16:25

Yup sorry most of that, especially leaving the kids alone is neglect.

AcrossthePond55 · 21/03/2019 16:25

I'm so glad you feel able to speak to your mum about this.

My two have the same age gap and I would NEVER have left the elder in charge of the younger at that age, not even to run to the store. Well, maybe walking 3 houses down (double quick) to the postbox and right back but that would be IT.

Bubblysqueak · 21/03/2019 16:26

Yes definitely neglect.
I work in safeguarding and I would definitely have some involvement with this family if they went to one of my settings.

Deadringer · 21/03/2019 16:27

It's lazy, piss poor parenting. How can the mother be loving and supportive if she isn't there? Letting them sleep when they want could be considered a parenting style I suppose, but imo it's lazy. The rest is neglect as far as I am concerned. Giving children freedom to make independent choices is very important but their actual safety is even more important. I am easy going and my DC are pretty free range, but this is just shameful.

MadeInUSA · 21/03/2019 16:27

OP I'm so sorry what a difficult situation for you.

Does your DM realize what could happen if someone reports this? She could lose the DCs. She really has to make some major changes here, starting with not putting the DCs in danger by leaving them alone in the house. I hope you can get her to see sense

Original poster
twentytimes · 21/03/2019 16:29

I will speak to my Mum and try and deal with it myself before I could consider calling social services.
What would they do? From peoples reactions its sounds like they would be immediatly removed from her.

OP posts:
WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 21/03/2019 16:30

well, for a start she needs to parents them - enforce bedtimes, not let them watch whatever on TV.

She needs to arrange proper childcare for when she isn't there.

MillennialFalcon · 21/03/2019 16:31

It’s not healthy, the eldest shouldn’t have that kind of responsibility for looking after two young children for hours at a time, that is basically putting parenting responsibility on her when she is just a kid, it’s completely different from just keeping an eye on them while the parents nip to the shops. There is too much pressure on her and too much potential for something to go wrong. And the youngest shouldn’t be left alone. Also children need some kind of sleep schedule at that age and shouldn’t be exposed to inappropriate material, just because the situation is not the worst doesn’t mean it’s okay. I would have concerns. The children may seem happy because they will feel they are getting away with a lot more than their peers as they have less supervision and boundaries but ultimately that’s not actually a good thing, a four-year-old shouldn’t get to set their own bed time, they need parenting. Social services could offer support in this situation, I have a family member who has social-service involvement and though it isn't an ideal situation they are trying to help and focusing on supporting her as a parent not taking any rights away. I know it is must be a very awkward complicated situation for you but it does sound like your mum is struggling and it is having an impact on your siblings. Does she have any other family support? I am guessing your siblings father isn't in the picture? What about her own parents?

Pinkbells · 21/03/2019 16:34

YABU to think this isn't neglect, yes. I don't think an 11 year old should be left 'for several hours', and certainly not in charge of 4/5 year olds who should never be left alone. It doesn't sound much like my idea of a 'supportive' parent!

mbosnz · 21/03/2019 16:37

Also, with reference to how the children seem fine with it, bear in mind, they don't know anything different! This is their 'normal'.

I wonder though, are they fine with it, when they wake from a nightmare, and there's no grown-up there to make them feel safe?

What kind of food are they eating?

How are they doing in school? Who helps them with their homework if they're having trouble?

Who does the 11 year old talk to if they're having trouble in school - say, bullying, or getting into trouble?

What happens if they're sick? Does Mum stay home? Or is the 11 year old expected to look after the little ones if they're sick? Who looks after the 11 year old if they're sick?

MissKenton · 21/03/2019 16:37

Bloody hell OP if you know something like this is happening at the very least speak to the parent if you’re uncomfortable speaking to social services. It’s ridiculous to leave children of those ages alone for any length of time.

It also makes my blood boil when parents enlist their children to constantly babysit for their younger children and in many cases the babysitters are far too young.

FenellaVelour · 21/03/2019 16:38

Social worker here. I’d consider it neglect, yes.

The children wouldn’t be removed, but if a referral was made I imagine the social worker would be providing some very strong advice and there would be an expectation on your mother to engage with that advice and make changes. The social worker would be looking to see if your mum had insight on why this would be considered neglectful, and whether she would be able to make the changes needed to keep the children safe.

Ijustwanttochill · 21/03/2019 16:43

This is out and out neglect! She is putting the children in all sorts of danger! I'm not sure what you talking to her will achieve as she has obviously gone all these years thinking it's ok!
And am I the only one who thinks she must have told her kids not to tell anyone? Cause if they told a teacher etc about everything that is going on then they would without doubt have raised safeguarding issues. So if the has told the kids not to tell anyone, she knows it's wrong but carries on anyway.
I hope someone calls social services on her one day, I really do

Frenchmontana · 21/03/2019 16:47

My best friend is like your younger siblings.

The older ones think her childhood was fine because it was so much better than theirs. She is 13 years younger than the nearest older sibling.

Her up ringing was actually awful. But I feel so bad for the older ones who think it was great. Theres must have been horrendous.

Its cause problems between the siblings. Because they always say how lovely her childhood was, she feels differently and feels really resentful that no one stepped in and helped her. Even though they were all adults by the time she was 5.

TriciaH87 · 21/03/2019 16:47

Are you kidding me. Utterly disgusting. These children need to be cared for who is cooking for them? If you believe that maddie was taken and it wasn't the parents which i doubt this makes them look like parent of the year. These kids are far too young to be left all night to fend for themselves. I would personally report it. You are just as bad for not doing so and just as responsible if something does happen. You do not plan a fire or an avcident they just happen and if the 4 year old for example chokes how is an 11 year old going to cope if they die leaving them feeling guilty for life.

FilthyforFirth · 21/03/2019 16:48

Why is she out all the time? What is she doing? If work she needs to arrange childcare, if as I suspect out socialising, she needs to stop if she can't get a babysitter. Can you spend some time with the 11y/o and ask how they really are? I feel awful for them all.

JemSynergy · 21/03/2019 16:48

I wouldn't leave an 11 year old for that length of time on their own and I certainly wouldn't leave them to supervise the younger ones. If this is a parenting style I think it is a crap one.

Merename · 21/03/2019 16:49

Hi OP, I also work for SS and consider this neglect without doubt. It is actually illegal, while there isn’t a specific age in law you can leave a child alone, parents can be prosecuted if leaving a child alone puts them at risk, which it clearly does for 4/5yr olds who cannot assess danger and probably also an 11yr old, depending on their maturity levels though. SS are not likely to remove the children immediately, although they would if an accident or something serious happened during a time they’d been left alone, which is very possible. What SS are more likely to do is work with your mum about what is acceptable and expect to see changes, if this continued concerns would escalate.

Since you are planning to speak to your mum, it would help to make her aware of the legal position. Do you feel that you could tell her you feel you must report her if the leaving them alone doesn’t change? Would she then just hide it from you? Will your siblings tell you what is happening?

The poor routine and lack of boundaries is not good but not illegal or immediately risky in the same way. However in my view this will have an emotional impact on children in the long term and could be considered emotional abuse, if I was assessing the whole picture. Children need someone to be in charge, and many will become polite and compliant like you describe through having to be more responsible than they should, it doesn’t mean things are ok.

I feel for you , what a difficult position and no wonder your perspective feels skewed if you’ve experienced worse in your childhood. Of course you love your mum and will feel loyal but it sounds that really you know this is not ok. Feel free to pm me if you want to ask anything about actions services could take etc.

LittlePaintBox · 21/03/2019 16:50

Parenting style? It's a NON-parenting style.

It's wrong to make an 11 year old child responsible for the care of her siblings, when does she get a chance to be a child?

Where are the parents during the times when the kids are home alone?

My mum frequently left my sister and me alone while she 'nipped to the shops', on one occasion we helped ourselves to the sherry and my sister (aged 3) was drunk when mum got back home!