To think this isn't neglect?

[twentytimes]

3 children aged 11,5 and 4. Eldest is sometimes left alone with the little two for several hours and is on her own once a week from after school until midnight. 4 and 5 year olds have on a few occasions been left alone for up to half an hour. They have mums number and know how/who to contact if something goes wrong, nothing ever has though.

Little two are never put to bed because they don't want to. Most nights they eventually fall asleep on the sofa whilst watching tv and are either left there or carried up to bed. They're allowed to watch whatever they want, 5 year old is easily scared so doesn't but both the 4 and 11 year olds will watch adult rated films or tv programmes.

They do what they like with their appearance as long as they aren't in school or it doesn't break school rules and are overall just given a lot more trust and freedom than most children their ages. They aren't spoilt with material things and are told no but if they want to go somewhere or start a new club for example they are almost always allowed. They don't have many rules at home but are expected to follow other peoples rules and are disciplined if they break them or are rude

They are all very happy and confident children, very polite and not badly behaved. Their Mum really loves and supports them. None of them complain or are upset by any of the things I mentioned, if they ever were then Mum would change her parenting.

I know this probably isn't the best example of parenting and If I ever have children I wouldn't do the exact same but AIBU to think its just a different parenting style rather than neglect and that I don't have a moral obligation to report any of this?

I have dc that ages. I've not left any of them at home alone yet. Definitely neglect.

So if you thought it was perfectly fine, why did you post about it?
What's happened? Has she been deleted by someone?

I used to stay up until 12 when I was about that age, but I genuinely didn't need any more sleep.

They do need a bit more routine and not to watch TV until they fall asleep, in some ways I think the unrestricted TV is the worst bit.

I’m a foster carer and without going into too much detail, I’m currently looking after a child from a very similar situation to the one you’re describing here OP.

Thank you everyone for the replies. I promise from tomorrow I will make sure the little ones are not left on their own or with 11 year old ever again. The other issues I will help deal with slowly but they will be sorted as well. Hopefully my Mum will listen to me which I'm pretty certain she will and that we will be able to sort it out and get her the support she needs on her own but if not I know I have to talk to social services.

I obviously wouldn't have posted this if I was confident that nothing was wrong but I was genuinely surprised with how many people felt to strongly it was neglect. They don't live in isolation and although I probably have the most insight into their lives, there are lots of other people in and out of the house and around the children who haven't expressed any concerns.

I guess when you know my Mum and the kids personally its easier to ignore the bad bits and just focus on the good bits which there really are a lot of as well. An outsider just given the facts and with no emotional connection can clearly see its neglect so obviously it is and it must just be luck that nothing terrible has happened as a result so far.

The bigger problems when I was young were her partying and chasing men which made all the things I mentioned in the OP worse. There was a bit of private intervention after the youngest was born and since then people seem to think she's sorted herself out and is a good mum. Its accepted that she's a bit chaotic and not your average parent but everyone knows she loves the kids, they're happy and think she's doing her best. I think she's given quite a lot of slack because of their absent father and I think still seen as the teenage mum she was when she had me. She isn't doing her best though, isn't a teenager and there is no reason why the kids have been left on their own. She does have the potential to be a really good Mum but I know she isn't close to being that right now.

I feel so sorry for you, @TwentyTimes. ❤️ It’s not your job and shouldn’t be your job to be responsible for sorting your Mum out. Parents are supposed to protect their children, not the other way round.

As well as speaking to your Mum, would it be worth speaking to NSPCC even if you insist on being anonymous for now? It might help you see things more clearly and they may be able to give you some advice.

Not right. Not safe. Not good parenting.

This needs sorting sooner, rather than later. I think that your judgment might be a but skewed as you're 'fairly well turned out now' so to say. That doesn't mean that she should be leaving the children unsupervised, that's really shocking IMO

This is 100% neglect in my opinion. An eleven year old is not mature enough to look after two small children nor be left alone until midnight. This is not a style of parenting....there is no parenting going on by the sounds of it. The adult needs reporting, those poor children.

I havent read the whole thread. This is 100% neglectful in my eyes.
I have, who I consider to be a mature 11 year old dd, but there is no way I'd leave her unattended for that length of time, minding two younger siblings..... anything could happen !
The 2 smaller kids should never be left on their own, it's complete madness and total neglect.
They should not be watching adult themed t.v either.
Where is the mother while this is going on ?
If she's working, she needs child care for all 3 kids.
Social services would take this very seriously I'm sure.
This most definitely is not just a parenting style, no way !

Is this a wind up? Of course it is neglect. What happens if fire breaks out? 11 year old being treated like fucking Cinderella having to look after young siblings for hours on end.

@twentytimes, I just saw your last post. So sorry you are in this situation. It's not your fault, you're just too close to see the bad things and you've probably been reared this way too ( or experienced worse things according to your post ).
Please talk to your mum but I feel she needs support and help in order to get back on track. I can't see her doing this alone. Speak to some one ...as a p.p said, the NSPCC might guide you and send you in the right direction.
Wishing you the very best.

Your last post makes you sound like a really caring daughter, but I do agree with others that it sounds as if your mother needs some professional parenting support.
Some of what you have described is "just" poor parenting, but the first paragraph is unequivocally neglect, and do you not think it possible she would be quicker to make some serious changes with outside agencies involved, that by 'getting some advice' from her dd ?

twentytimes you sound so lovely and caring, good luck in getting your mum to change, with outside intervention probably.

Sorry for the situation you are in but this is serious neglect and social services should be involved.

From age 8 I was left to babysit 1 and 6 year old sisters for about 3-4 hours per day. Age 11 onwards there were two more brothers with full on care from nappies onwards.

I developed some useful skills, I agree with that.

I didn't resent it at the time because I didn't know any better.

Today I have issues relating to my younger siblings because once you changed someone's diapers they will always be kids in your eyes.

I have also had major issues with my parents, because being responsible for everything made it extremely difficult for me to accept other's authority. I still have issues with this today.

I ended up working in child MH. From today's perspective I still have moments when I want to bash my parents with a frying pan for robbing me of my childhood and making me grow up way too fast. I resent them massively for that.

It seems likely the people in her life may have similar values as her so don't see how shockingly negligent this is. No one I know would be ok with this. It's not your job to sort her out though.
My bio mom and sister both had kids in their teens and both still behave as teens. I sometimes find I have obscenely low expectations of them both and have to remind myself that they are now full grown adults.

An 11 year old cannot and should never look after a 4 and 5 year old!!! And a 4 and 5 should old should never, ever be left alone. Both of these things are awful.

Op you are very articulate and sound like you are on it now. It seems a burden for you though to sort this all out.
What is your mum doing while the kids are watching adult tv and falling asleep on the sofa?
I have an 11 year old who could no way look after little ones or stay alone till midnight. They must have had to grow up very quickly.

Good luck with it all.

Oops wrong thread, I've reported myself. You sound like a great sister and daughter op.

I don't really know what kind of outside support would be helpful.
There is no real reason or excuse to why the kids have been left alone other than she thinks they’ll be okay and don’t mind. She can easily afford proper child care and has lots of people she trusts and could ask to look after the kids who would be more than happy to help.

Can I remain anonymous when talking to the NSPCC for advice even if I'm admitting the things I mentioned in my OP?

Yes, you can. ❤️ www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/our-services/nspcc-helpline/

Please please tell them everything you’ve told us though - they’ll only be able to advise you properly if you’re honest. xx

It’s absolutely neglect. My parents both worked nights from me being 13 and I’d only see them for very brief periods (20 mins). I had to cook for myself and be in the house alone for all that time and it was horrible. Really frightening at times when you are a kid in a big house alone at night, no one to talk to in person about your worries and notice if you look upset or ill. And I didn’t have little siblings to care for and was considerably older than 11.

Your OP disgusts me, to be frank. This is terrible parenting and I’d report this to social services without hesitation if I knew about it.

Leaving a 4 and 5 year old alone for any amount of time is asking for something awful to happen. What would happen if one of them fell down the stairs and cracked their head?

Cannot believe you had to ask op.😕