To think this absolutely is homophobic

[HuntIdeas]

Muslim families have successfully argued for Birmingham primary schools to stop the No Outsiders programme

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic."

AIBU to think:

1. This absolutely is a homophobic thing to say
2. There are plenty of places in the world where you would get stoned for stating you didn’t believe in Islam!

Hopefully this link works: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47613578

NotAnotherJaffaCake - sorry but are you for real? You think that Muslim children or communities will be radicalised because gay people have the right to exist openly EXIST This county?? Shall I pop back in the closet then? Not upset anyone? Should I take my kids out of school as I’ve already exposed other kids to the idea that there can be families with 2 mums?

We all have any number of things that are unacceptable to us without going wrong being accused of being phobic

Saying they don't accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship is honophobic though! Bunch of backward hate filled human beings.

What approved materials in schools would make your hair curl? What? I have never come across anything that would make my hair curl.

Here’s what they could do - and this goes for all bigots religious or otherwise. Preach TOLERANCE of other views, other faiiths, other people and how they live their lives. Not point a finger saying - see those Christians over there? They’re wrong, and you don’t need to learn anything about their history, culture or bible stories - just ignore them. Their ‘lifestyle’ is disgraceful and against Islam.

Tolerance implies there is something that needs to be tolerated.

It's a commonly held belief in several religions. We can't police what people think or what they teach their children, but we can ensure that the opposing view is represented in schools.

I’d also like to know what the hair curling approved materials are. So far my 9 year old has learned ‘penis’ And ‘vagina’ in sex education, if anything it’s too tame. And Been to a mosque, church and synagogue and been taught about the major religions.

They where joined in their protest by Christian fundamentalists by the way this wasn’t just Muslim parents

It’s sadly not illegal to reject homosexuality as normal - I totally disagree with these parents but you can’t police peoples personal views

I don’t think the school should have backed down but I get why they did

N0rdic unless you believe people can change sex, you'll find a lot to disagree with in a lot of school-approved programmes of trans education.

sailors How can you not see that actions like this absolutely do contribute to community relationship breakdown? If you were a strict Muslim parent, issues like this are going to have you looking for religious schools, and make you more suspicious of integration. It's a massive own goal. It's extremely easy to paint this as "they hate all Muslims".

Yup, the key thing is to insist that children are taught tolerance as in: this is the minimum standard of behaviour, you are civil to other people whether you approve of their sexuality/sex/gender/preferred myth system/skin colour or not. People who are not like you exist and have just as much right to exist, be happy, go about their business safely as you do.
But bigots and fuckwits can't cope with that. If they're not allowed more rights than other people they insist they are being oppressed and persecuted.

NotAnotherJaffaCake actions like what? Religious bigots - whether they are Muslim or Christian or anything else should NOT dictate what children are taught in our schools.

I feel a bit confused as to the name of this program as it sounds like a banner at an EDL rally, rather than something inclusive.

No Outsiders?!

Without seeing the material being taught it's hard to sympathise with either side.
Fundamentally though, this is what happens at the intersection between different faiths/orientations.
There is a mantra that education is the key and tolerance naturally springs from that. I'm increasingly less sure this is credible as any 'teaching' is assuming that it is coming from the correct view. Where you have competing views how can you decide which should prevail ? (especially where both are protected in law).
I am not familiar with how Islam teaches about homosexuality, the Bible is more nuanced but is obviously interpreted differently by different churches.
It's never going to go down well to try and force a lesson that goes against the world view you have at home.
Personally I think perhaps schools would be better placed to have their own rules about what is acceptable behaviours towards each other at school and model inclusion and acceptance, without suggesting that one view has more credibility than another.
Schools are not necessarily a place with a neutral agenda. Maybe we should not encourage them to have a role in moral education beyond specific parameters that are nationally agreed?

Still not seeing any details as to what was so offensive.

Sooooo we accommodate any bigotry for fear people will go to extremist lengths. Sounds peachy.

What does this programme say about Gender and Transgender?

sailors actions like this No Outsiders programme, which the majority of this school's community have issues with. And how do you propose to teach these children tolerance of LGBT issues if you can't even get them into school? Because they certainly aren't going to get it at home. Any trust that school had built up with that community has now been blown away. If they'd taken a softly, softly approach they had a real opportunity to change opinions, show and explore different relationships. They have completely and utterly failed.

Writing off an entire community as religious bigots is not the way to engage and change their mindsets.

It's not just this one school is it? There's a few involved in Birmingham. Also protests at one in Manchester, where No Outsiders isn't taught, to prevent it being taught.

The assistant head in the Parkfield school is homosexual isn't he? He came to Parkfield after having to leave another school when a (Christian) parent there objected to his teaching about respect for people with different sexual orientations.

Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have

Laughing my socks off at everyone who is saying this isn't homophobic I do agree with some pps though that some people would think it's too early to have those conversations.

Nordic No, we don't go to any lengths to accommodate bigotry. You choose an approach that is appropriate to the community you are trying to engage, that doesn't start off by labelling the entire community as bigots and telling them that deeply held religious beliefs are wrong.

You can download sample pages from the TES website (but it's a zip file and I'm on my phone right now).

So better gay people/the kids of gay people are just kept somewhere dark then? Out of the way? Somewhere like a closet maybe?

There is no resolution here that doesn't involve either hiding the gays or people letting go of one of their religious ideas.

I think one thing that's really missing, in this thread and in the discussion generally, is that often (me and a fair few of my friends) knew, or at least had an inkling of being LGBTQ+ in primary school. And I was raised in the church, so a programme like this could have been a great route into self acceptance for me. It's not just for pupils who may come into contact with the LGBTQ+ community, but also pupils who may well be, or be becoming a part of it. One single adult telling me it's OK could have made such a difference to my life.
And for reference, I went to school in the 2000s.

@RandomlyChosenName, 'No Outsiders' meaning there should be no outsiders in society because everyone is included.

If they don’t acknowledge being gay as being normal they are bigots and their children do need to be taught that however unpalatable that may be. Letting racism and homophobia go just perpetuates it.

My family has to respect education about Christian and Muslim beliefs in our schools. Why can’t the courtesy be returned?