To think this absolutely is homophobic

[HuntIdeas]

Muslim families have successfully argued for Birmingham primary schools to stop the No Outsiders programme

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic."

AIBU to think:

1. This absolutely is a homophobic thing to say
2. There are plenty of places in the world where you would get stoned for stating you didn’t believe in Islam!

Hopefully this link works: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47613578

ALL Abrahamic religions are homophobic

Buddhism too, despite it being ever so Instagrammable.

In those ‘places’ you would also vestige for being gay. The comparison is not helpful.

However ‘not agreeing with homosexuality’ is not the same as not agreeing with Islam. Islam is a belief system which you either agreeeith or not. Homosexuality is not a belief system, it is a stateofbeing which you either accept or don’t accept. ‘Not agreeing’ is a euphemism for not accepting. It’s homophobia.

@rightreckoner to expand on what you said all Vedic religions are homophobic because, like abrahamic religions, they reject the practice of sex for physical pleasure.

The religious argument against homosexuality is rooted in the proposition that sex is exclusively for the purpose of reproduction and any other purpose is bad. The use of contraceptives by heterosexual couples is just as sinful as homosexuality as often preached by the Catholic Church. Unless these people also shun contraception, masturbation, heterosexual sodomy and sex where there is infertility they’re hypocrites.

Unfortunately this is where appeasement gets us. If we pussyfoot around any group of bigots for fear of causing offence it's hardly surprising when they begin to feel they can dictate to more rational folk

It's fascinating, though, to see the deflection and whataboutery from the usual apologists, and appalling (though not surprising) to see even this being co-opted to the "you'll drive extremism" argument

In the longer term, since religion remains a choice, I'm wondering if it will one day end up being removed from the list of protected characteristics. It would be a bold step of course, but might just remove at least some potential for these clashes and the competitive hatred they throw up

I think we are more likely to see sex as a protected characteristic removed. It's already being edged out.

This is Iran squares the circle of the prohibition on homosexuality but the existence of gay men whose families want to believe they are good Muslims. Call them women and all's fine.

This is how Iran..

They're not teaching the mechanics of or promoting homosexual relationships, merely informing children that there are lots of different ways of living which are outside of your experience. The children of people who have such outdated and unpleasant views of homosexuality are exactly the ones who need this. My heart breaks for kids who grow up knowing they are "different " and that their parents would hate them if they found out who they really were. I think it's a great move for kids in self acceptance , knowledge of and acceptance of others and promoting good mental health.

It's hateful and homophobic - whether you like it or not around 10% of the population are gay, religions need to accept that in the 21st century its no longer acceptable to make people live in fake marriages and being unhappy. There was a gay teacher at my DD's primary and he brought he partner to events and none of the kids cared one bit that he was male not female

Of course it’s homophobic. They are saying that some people are, by their very nature, not “valid”, whatever that means!

It makes me so angry that religion (any religion) gets to dictate what is or isn’t taught in our schools.

If the religion doesn’t like something, they can preach about it in their mosque/church/temple etc but school is no place for religious brainwashing of young children - it should be a place where the law and values of Britain as a whole are taught (eg tolerance of different religious beliefs and practices, acceptance of different sexualities etc). It’s not like the schools are going into detail about how to have sex, they’re just explaining different family set ups and different legal types of marriage to prevent discrimination and bigotry, and to assist with integration of different cultures and religions.

Do these religious bigots really think that by teaching their children that being gay is “not valid” that they will be able to turn any gay children they happen to have straight?! Or do they actually just not care whether their children are happy or not, as long as they don’t embarrass their families by acting on their feelings and entering into a same sex relationship? I know some people who would definitely fit into the latter category and it’s tragic for the poor young adults it affects.

So there are a bunch of 'religions' apparently against homosexuality? But all these same 'religions' believe their 'God' made everybody,earth and everything right? So accordingly to their mentality 'god' must have made a mistake? So homosexuality is what precisely? So what other stuff is their 'god' wrong about?

Homosexuality is as natural as breathing, sexual orientation is a natural inclination.
Teaching children about equality and inclusivity is a educational necessity, when there is so much hate rhetoric still being spewed.
It is not enforced liberalism for children to be taught that love,acceptance and kindness towards one another is important.
I helped raise a few children, religion was never enforced upon them-they had exposure to all the main religion, celebrating fully the diversity of beliefs.
We were very open about discussing sexuality because it was important for us as a family to let them know, that exploring their sexuallity was natural.
Indeed we went a step further to explain social constructs, patriarchal dogma and feminism.

They were taught to question things, form their opinions and to treat people with love and respect. All of them choose to be Atheist, as adults but appreciate some aspects of their familial heritage of Islam. As a family we love that they know their owns minds and celebrate their beliefs.

@MephistophelesApprentice
Agreed. But my point is if this was taught at home parents would have control over how they educated their children about it. No one stance is going to suit everyone, and teachers don't have autonomy to teach what they eat to avoid cries of bias etc. often seen on here. With no autonomy we teach what we are told to, and therein lies the problem.

The cynic in me does tend to think this is a push from the trans side though. Before the trans juggernaut arrived there really was no talk of having to discuss this in school. I really dont think it’s a coincidence that this is now being taken in to schools considering the links the trans charity have with the government.

It’s THAT that worries me. It’s being stealthy pushed in to schools under the cover of LGB -T, the LGB are now going to be dragged through the mud because of it.

Teach what they want, not eat.

Just like to point out that not all Muslims are homophobic in the same way that not all white people are white suprematists.

SnowdropsiUnderTrees
Yes it’s only a minority of ultra conservatives that have an issue.

Absolutely homophobic. If we are invested as a society in promoting tolerance and acceptance then LGB must be taught simply and early on. A significant proportion of our society is gay or bisexual and all children should be aware that love between people of the same sex is recognised and accepted.

Agree with those worried about Trans teaching. Until we understand why there has been a 4000% increase in trans identifying kids we should be wary. I would not be happy for my child to be told that some people are 'in the wrong body'.

Also - doesn't the Equality Act specify 'gender reassignment' as a protected characteristic? This programme seems to list 'gender identity' which is simply not true and not recognised in law as protected.

Homophobia is also present amongst atheists so let's not make this a purely anti Islamic thread. Especially given the recent NZ terrorist atrocity.

Actually, the more I read these posts, the more uncomfortable I feel. I think they are introducing these topics way to early. Our children (all primary school) are simply not ready. I am only now sure that my 10 year old understands periods - this conversation has been spontaneous, bits here and there, not awkward at all.

For religion, several friends have different religions, they learn a bit in school, loves to hear about other holidays and we always have pork free play dates and birthday parties (some friends are Muslim, so it is easier to just make sure it is ok for everyone).

For gay, I mentioned before that one DC has a friend with two mums, this is just part of our life, no need to draw extra attention to at the moment, it is just viewed as completely normal. If I start getting lots of questions, I will speak to one of the mums and maybe arrange a play date when I am there and they can ask the mum what they like.

For trans, this worries me at this age if this indeed is taught. If one DC said they were the opposite sex, I would do what I can to help, but I feel that there are so many stereotypes of girls / boys pushed at the children these days. At primary age, I don’t see why we cannot just let them play with what they like and who they like, dress comfortably and just be children. Do we really need to worry about gender identity at 6, 7, 8 years old?

Maybe I have just completely missed the plot? moves closer to the sink, waiting to get completely flamed

We are not Muslim . We have a 5 year old ds who attends a local CofE school. I have no problem with him learning about different religions including Islam. I do think he is too young to learn about sexuality and being gay vs not being gay. It just goes past his understanding level, I'm sure he will show interest in that as he gets older but for now he doesn't need to learn about 'heavy' topics. It's not homophobia, it's just allowing a child to remain a child

UnPocoLoco2
All they are teaching is that sometimes parents are a mum and a dad but sometimes they might be a mum and a mum or a dad and a dad and that’s ok.
Nothing more confusing than that.
Most 5 year olds will go ‘fine’ and carry on playing with Lego.

myboiledeggs my cousin is in a same sex marriage. They have three kids, two under the age of ten. They understand. I’m sure they are not going to start talking about how they have sex to small children. It’s utterly normal. If it’s taught at an age appropriate level then it’s great. It also allows young people to understand feelings they have which seem different to ‘normal’ society roles.

What they’re also teaching is that children shouldn’t discriminate against others based on gender identity. Sounds fair enough until you start to think about what this actually means. Why do children need to understand the concept of a gender identity? They gain nothing from this other than confusion and it’s not fluffy harmless fun when they grow up with no understanding of basic biology and the ridiculous notion that people can change sex.
So what is your gender identity - Jelly babies anyone?

I'm on the fence on this one. I'm not sure being Muslim is a choice - it's a cultural expectation. That's why Muslims usually come from Muslim families and Christians from Christian families. Sure you can choose to reject it but if you are indoctrinated into it that is hard. Some religions object to homosexuality and that's a fact and perhaps that should also be taught in schools. I also think primary is too young in all honesty and I don't really see why it has to be taught anyway - it's a fact of life and everywhere you go it's seen and with most people accepted. I didn't have to learn about people being gay to understand that people are gay and have no problem with it. I want my children to accept homosexual and heterosexual relationships as equally valid, and we have that view in our house. It doesn't matter what they are taught In school. We have to accept some communities don't agree and never will. I am strongly pro choice but understand a catholic school may teach differently on this subject. All I can impact is my children. Teaching Muslim children That homosexuality is normal won't change the fact that if they are gay they will be rejected by their community so what is anyone gaining here?

Interesting article here about Parkfield School and some of the work that's been done since the Trojan Horse issue which concerned much the same geographical area:

schoolsweek.co.uk/parkfield-school-and-no-outsiders-we-must-learn-from-trojan-horse-history-in-birmingham/

It reports that "No Outsiders" was actually introduced four years ago and rightly points out that it covers much more than just gay issues. Therefore it appears that parents have been happy so far with lessons in avoiding intolerance - including, presumably, those which cover acceptance of their own faith - and that some have only chosen to object now homosexuality's being covered

Or to put it another way, it's okay to discourage bigotry, providing it's not their bigotry

Yoss I agree with you