Aib u to ask what age did you become invisible and do you miss the attention of the opposite sex.

[whatisforteamum]

Until now I always thought it was a myth.I am 52 however I am slim energetic with a young sense of humour and taste in music.Having a teenager at home I keep up with the latest trends through him.I work long hours and have the stamina people half my age lack.I work with people in their 20s.
Recently though there is no denying my wrinkles.Previously I thought they were a badge of honour.Now I just feel old.Men do give me second glances when I am out.However for the most part I feel invisible.
I have never been pretty more attractive I think.What age did you feel like this?

I never had much attention but I miss the little bit of attention I used to get. Don't even get any from DH. The only person who ever compliments me is a good friend who is gay.

It does happen to men. I think it’s not unusual that men feel getting old and unnattractive. I also have one Male gay friend who is attractive and well groomed but feels invisible and a reasonably good looking straight male friend who really finds it hard to meet someone too. Both don’t have much confidence

The amount of men on OLD who have told me women don’t like bald men for instance, or short.
Also men can still ‘let themselves go’ and not make the effort and probably women are less likely to take notice of them if they are wearing an old tracksuit

The reason it’s not exactly the same is that men do not have to do very much to make themselves more appealing - wash, shave, haircut and some nicer clothes
Women seem to have a lot more work cut out for them as they age (there is hair EVERYWHERE is is most alarming) so for me it takes a long time and a lot of effort to pull off looking good, and I just don’t have time. I always look rushed and slightly frumpy for comfort reasons

Male attention dropped off in my late 40’s, but true invisibility began in my 50’s. It’s soul destroying to have people attempt to walk through you on the pavement (fact! my husband has witnessed it). I suppose the worst is when a man gets out of the way for the young woman immediately in front of me then veers back into my path.

No, I really do not miss the attention from men! It's great going out drinking with my girl friends and not having to worry about random drunk arseholes trying to chat us up.

I like the anonymity as I get more naturally introverted in my old age.

Reading back a bit, I like what Sarcelle said!

but true invisibility began in my 50’s. It’s soul destroying to have people attempt to walk through you on the pavement (fact! my husband has witnessed it).

As that likely to be due to the fact that you are older though? I am in my 50s and if anything it is the other way around. People get out of my way more as they don't fancy knocking me over (presumably I look like I won't survive a fall so well). In contrast men will deliberately (I think) get in DDs way.

I don’t think I’ve ever really been anything other than invisible. Or, at least, I’ve never been aware of attracting any particular attention from men generally. Not even when I was in my early 20s. I’ve never been the type of person that men try to chat up or anything of that ilk (I’m not unfriendly or intimidating though - I manage to talk to lots of women in toilet queues etc). In my late 30s, I’m not sure I would welcome any attention anyway.

I was abroad recently and working in a coffee shop when I noticed a man who was about 50 staring at me. At first I thought I must have food in my face, but then I decided he was just a weirdo. It didn’t occur to me that he might have been interested (presumably he’d have tried to sit near me/start a conversation if that was the case). I just assumed he was an odd person who would stare at anyone. But the experience of being noticed at all was unusual enough for me to pick up on it.

It wasn't an age for me, it was a weight, and no I didn't miss male attention. Not fond of it returning in the form of sly groping in clubs tbh.

The stuff about 'I have a teenage son so I keep up with the trends' though... why? I mean, it's good to be interested for his sake in what matters to him, but there's no inherent virtue in youth culture. I'm 30 and it's like a foreign language to me - both I and the teens concerned vastly prefer it that way.

most guys are chancers punching above their weight

It's when you get the mum cut.
www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/mum-hair-actually-designed-to-ward-off-men-2013030862130

peppersaunt

Yes -

I'm 45 so probably in the sweet spot where I'm not yet invisible, but don't get sexually harassed.

There are definitely more than 1 thing going on here.

The thing where everyone irrespective of sex / age stops noticing you entirely. This is to do with older women generally not being seen as at all important by anyone (expect the ones who know them obv!).

I remember when I was a teen my mum saying that when she was with me & we wanted to cross a road the traffic would stop to let us cross, if she was on her own she'd be waiting far ages.

Are teenagers of both sexes more noticeable though?

I think there is a whole load of stuff going on here the more I think about it.

I think there's a lot of conflation here between sexual harrassment and sexual desirability.

Pretty much all women have been sexually harrassed on the street. It has nothing to do with beauty or sex appeal - overweight and conventionally unattractive women get harassed too. It may have something to do with youth, but I don't think that's because younger women are more attractive, just that they're considered easier to intimidate. An older woman is more likely to tell them to f**k off or alert the authorities, while a very young woman is more likely to feel ashamed. That's why these blokes usually though not always target young - often very young - women.

Genuine sexual attention - admiring glances, flirtation etc - is something very different. This too declines with age but for different reasons, namely that young people - and I very much include men in this too - tend to be more obviously attractive in thier youth. There are exceptions of course, but as a general rule it is true.

Reading this thread after reading this one > www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3535551-To-be-angry-and-distressed-at-the-amount-of-harassment-my-fourteen-year-old-daughter-faces is quite illuminating...

I think there's a lot of conflation here between sexual harrassment and sexual desirability

Agree

IcedPurple

I would have dropped the occasional nice smile from an attractive man if it meant I didn't have to put up with the far more frequent unpleasant attention.

Even the "nice" ones I usually found intrusive and unwelcome.

TBH I didn't really want random men paying me more or different attention to any other person they interacted with. I actively didn't want to be seen as a sex object rather than a person at all really. I didn't like that men thought "OHO a pretty young woman!" and proceeded accordingly, IYSWIM.

That's just me though, the whole being treated as girl/woman first and person second by men, I've always noticed it and I've never liked it. I understand that other women feel different even if I don't really get what is nice about some random flirting with you. I mean unless he's incredibly attractive and also charming, non intimidating etc but the vast majority of them aren't and the very few who are, aren't enough to negate the mountain of shit IMO.

I actively didn't want to be seen as a sex object rather than a person at all really

I really don't think that finding someone attractive is the same as considering them a 'sex object'. Now and then, even at my advanced age (!) I still indulge in a bit of flirtation with attractive men. It doesn't mean I don't consider the man to be a 'person' or that I intend to take things further. It's just a bit of banter which adds a smile to my day, and hopefully to his too.

If you don't enjoy that, fine, but for me sexual harassment and flirtation are two very different things.

I sometimes feel invisible but I know for me it's more an actual feeling than reality as I have MH problems & things can feel unreal at times.

I'm 42 & I would say I went through a stage of invisibility in my mid-late 30s as I had MH illness unfortunately, I put on loads of weight, had hair loss & looked unhappy & generally ill.

Now I'm a lot better & probably look happier, I'm blonde with better hair & im slimmer & dress better. So I don't feel invisible to men now.
I don't get much harassment thankfully just chatted to nicely & asked out which is fine as I'm looking for a boyfriend.

I don't think age has much to do with it as my mum is a very pretty lady aged 69 & she gets chatted up by men aged late 50s up.
Which she doesn't like at all!!

& my Nan looked young when she was late 80s & had a couple of admirers the same age who would regularly buy her presents!!

I'm not conflating desirability with sexual harassment and I wasn't specifically referring to being shouted at in the street when I said I was happy to be invisible to men. I hated "admiring glances" or randoms trying to flirt with me or even ask me out. DD specifically avoids certain pubs because when she walks in men look her and I remember feeling like that too. Perhaps I would feel differently if I was now invisible to everyone as some people seem to feel they are but I don't find that be the case. In a lot of ways people are nicer to me and I get more attention now that I'm in my 50s.

To me, there's a very fine line and a lot of it is down to the delivery & looks of the person doing it rather than what they are actually doing.

This drives a lot of angry behaviour from some men as well as they see their charming handsome friend enjoying lots of amiable flirtation and when they try it and get a different reaction they see this as women being unfair or something, and over time I think this leads to the ones who get really really angry with you when they don't get the coy smile and flirty chat they were hoping for.

Whole thing is a minefield.

At the more trivial end, harassment is in the eye of the beholder.

eg if a man sits next to me on the bus and smiles and starts chatting a bit flirtily and he seems OK I'll think OK whatever and go along with it (although me being me I would resent having my attention commanded in this way and have to go along with it or be seen as "rude" or whatever) as long as he's not weird. If he did the exact same thing to my DD on the way home from school it's not OK. She has not yet learnt how to handle this stuff from men and would not know how to react. She wouldn't know how to gauge if this was a threat.

So it's not really as simple as - this is innocuous - this is harassment. The situation / who's on the receiving end matters too.

I know that I experience things as annoying and unwanted and actually just fuck off and leave me alone that some friends would be happy with. I have never understood why they enjoyed it. Sometimes they found it funny?

We're all different.

I would have ditched the few nice for the loads of awful in a flash.

I mean I just never wanted mens eyes on me when I was out and about, I didn't want them approaching me, I didn't want randoms asking me out or any of that.

I hated it and wanted to be left alone.

They never left me alone.

Now it has stopped, I feel really really happy about it.

I'm not yet totally invisible to everyone though which sounds grim, but that's a different thing, as not to do with men and sexual attraction.

If you don't enjoy that, fine, but for me sexual harassment and flirtation are two very different things.

Completely agree. I also agree that, as previous posters have said, being noticed and admired is a natural response, how someone acts on that response (and where this oversteps the line from flirtation to harassment is subjective).

I think we all agree that any unsolicited and unwanted physical contact is unacceptable. However, whilst someone might find a smile from a stranger 'uncomfortable', many would appreciate it (or be completely indifferent about it) and it can't be considered the same.

Ultimately, if we start labelling all unsolicited interaction between the sexes as 'harassment' then we've set a rather depressing precedent.

DungeonDragon yes I feel exactly the same as you.

Yes, I agree there can be a fine line between threatening and benign, and how you perceive it could also depend on your past experiences.

However, my main point is that harassing women on the street usually has very little to do with the woman's perceived sexual attractiveness - even women who are not even close to conventional ideas of attractiveness suffer from it - and that there is such a thing as genuine sexual attraction. Usually - I agree not always - it's possible to tell the difference.