Aib u to ask what age did you become invisible and do you miss the attention of the opposite sex.

[whatisforteamum]

Until now I always thought it was a myth.I am 52 however I am slim energetic with a young sense of humour and taste in music.Having a teenager at home I keep up with the latest trends through him.I work long hours and have the stamina people half my age lack.I work with people in their 20s.
Recently though there is no denying my wrinkles.Previously I thought they were a badge of honour.Now I just feel old.Men do give me second glances when I am out.However for the most part I feel invisible.
I have never been pretty more attractive I think.What age did you feel like this?

PB you seem to be telling women off who don't like being approached by randoms.

This is how we feel and how we have felt since we were girls.

How are you suggesting we should behave then.

Smile and be polite and go along with it so as not to spoil things for the women who like it?

Why doesn't that work the other way around?

That women who like it are encouraging men generally to behave this way including the ones who overstep.

I mean you can take that both ways.

The issue for me is that many men are extremely persistent and get angry if you don't give a reaction that they approve of. That makes many interactions rather fraught.

I'm interested that you draw the line at unwanted physical contact as "harassment". No - at that point it becomes assault.

Harassment can certainly include words. Words that men shout at us all too often.

You also haven't addressed the issue that this "unsolicited interaction between the sexes" starts when we are children. PLus of course, it's usually the men instigating it, isn't it. Women and girls do approach men they don't know and start chatting them up, but it's much less common.

I don't want randoms on the street to be expressing "genuine sexual attraction" to me either!

Urgh that made me feel quite queasy.

Do I care if the man is just a nob, or actually likes the look of me. If he has come up to me and started on at me when I want random men not to start chatting me up on the street. Which is always.

I don't want randoms on the street to be expressing "genuine sexual attraction" to me either!

Yes, I think you've made that abundantly clear already.

If he has come up to me and started on at me when I want random men not to start chatting me up on the street. Which is always.

Men always start chatting you up on the street? Really?

That wasn't really what I was talking about anyway. I don't think I've ever been chatted up on the street, nor would I want to be. I have, however, enjoyed some mild flirtation with men in bars or other social environments, and I hope to continue doing so.

I understand you don't enjoy that as you've told us several times. But some of us do.

The only time I got a lot of attention was as a teenager, always from older men. I’m only 25 now but I get completely ignored, even working as a barmaid

@MeAgainAgain

I wasn't seeking to justify harassment which seem to be the majority of examples in your post:

"including the ones who overstep." - If a mark is overstepped then it's harassment (subjective of course)

The issue for me is that many men are extremely persistent and get angry if you don't give a reaction that they approve of. - I would certainly dispute the 'many' but persistence and anger in the face of rejection is also harassment so I'd agree.

Harassment can certainly include words. Words that men shout at us all too often.

Again, I agree with you, in fact I would suggest that shouting at anyone is harassment.

Women and girls do approach men they don't know and start chatting them up, but it's much less common.

Again I'd dispute that it's MUCH less common but that's not the point.

Yes, persistence, aggression, crudeness, shouting, cat-calling etc. are quite right to be described as harassment (agree with you definition of unsolicited physical contact too).

My point was that if we classify smiling at someone and small talk as 'harassment' (when it isn't accompanied by any of the factors listed above) then aren't we just making human interaction between the sexes a minefield that is virtually impossible to navigate?

@IcedPurple

Damn you! You managed to say what I just did in half as many words! Completely agree by the way. The day that either sex are too scared to undertake mild-flirtation at the risk of being accused of harassment is a sad day (in my opinion).

Besides, it's normally abundantly clear pretty quickly if the flirtation isn't being appreciated or reciprocated anyway. It's perfectly reasonable to not want to engage in conversation with strangers and the vast VAST majority of strangers will accept that but it surely it can't be an offence to instigate a conversation (unless, like I say, it is done crudely, aggressively or you are overly persistent)

Agreed. If anyone - male or remale (though let's face it, it's usually the former) insists on trying to chat up someone who is obviously not interested, particularly if that involves aggressive language or touching, then clearly the line between flirting and harassment has been crossed and that is totally unacceptable.

But that's not to say that such a thing as innocent flirtation or banter cannot and does not exist.

I was wolf whistled all the time in my 20s. At that time I looked very young for my age, I was fairly dull and mousey looking from a distance. There was really no reason this wolf whistling would have happened other than as a form of casual harassment or bullying.
Now in my late 40s, I think I scrub up a lot better but am never harassed and reconfirms my view that the wolf whistling was just something they do to any younger girl. So glad it's stopped. It was so tedious.

I have to say, I never enjoyed men looking at me or taking notice. I rather walk by like everything is normal and not someone checking me out....I still get noticed. More so when I wear make up. After having kids I rarely wear any make up. But the odd day I do wear make up, I definitely notice a difference in the increase of men checking me out... I get more invisible, when I am wear gym gear and no make up. Or clothes with muddy dog prints and muddy shoes and no makeup with a hooded jacket on.

Always been invisible (I don't think I've ever been wolf whistled, even when I was younger). Perfectly happy with that!

Besides, it's normally abundantly clear pretty quickly if the flirtation isn't being appreciated or reciprocated anyway. It's perfectly reasonable to not want to engage in conversation with strangers and the vast VAST majority of strangers will accept that but it surely it can't be an offence to instigate a conversation (unless, like I say, it is done crudely, aggressively or you are overly persistent)

It doesn't have to be an offence. The fact is some of us don't like it and have never liked it so when we say that we don't miss attention from the opposite sex we are not conflating harassment with sexual desirability as suggested above.

I am 30 and am now mum to a small child which means not only am I fat, ugly, and tired which means I am definitely invisible, I also want all males within a 50 mile radius to piss off too. They are all invisible to me.

So win win I guess haha.

I'm 52 today I think I'm way more visible than I ever have been. I'm just so much more 'at one with myself' than I was when I was younger.

I have more empathy for others too. I'm just a more rounded person and get more rounded, metaphorically, as the years pass.

I'm happy

I also want all males within a 50 mile radius to piss off too.

Hmmm....Could be difficult to orchestrate! :)

IME I'd say 80%+ of the interactions I had with men I didn't know when young, which were not instigated by me in some way, fell into a category of unwanted veering to unpleasant.

"My point was that if we classify smiling at someone and small talk as 'harassment' (when it isn't accompanied by any of the factors listed above) then aren't we just making human interaction between the sexes a minefield that is virtually impossible to navigate?"

But it depends on the recipient.

It is fine for a man to do this to me, in the scheme of things. I can tell him to fuck off / have the confidence to be "rude" and leave etc. I didn't when I was young. My DD doesn't.

A lot of this is in the eye of the beholder.

I never got any kind of positive feelings about random men fancying me so I didn't want to talk to them.
If you are a person who does get positive feelings when random men fancy you, then obviously you have a different perspective on this.

I note that women who has said that they don't like it now, and they didn't like it when they are young, are coming round to being told they are making contact between the sexes virtually impossible etc.... that boils down the the old joyless / prude type stuff really doesn't it?

And of course the men know that girls and young women are far less confident and that's why they feel comfortable approaching them in the first place. They know they probably won't get told to piss off. They know even if the girl doesn't want to talk to them, she likely won't know how to get away, and will not want to be "rude" and also might be a bit worried about how to extricate herself safely.

Men in pubs and bars kick off all the time if you don't play nice, it's happened to me loads.

I'm quite happy to be invisible. It happened gradually, from about the age of 30.

In my teens I was 'odd' looking (tall, very thin, awkward) so got a lot of male attention for this (lots of reference to absence of breasts/'don't fancy yours much' comments etc).

In my 20s I grew in to my looks and although the attention of men I liked was nice there was an awful lot of attention from dicks. In particular older leery dicks.

In my 30s (with the added invisibility cloak of a bit of extra weight and 2 DC in tow most of the time) it was rather liberating to be able to wear what the hell I liked and even [drum roll] sit in a cafe/park without being approached by some bloke looking for an ego boost.

Now I'm in my 40s I really feel more confident than ever. I put some of this down to the fact that I am certain that no (one other than DH)(male of female) has an interest or would think to pass comment on what I wear/where I go/what I do. Very liberating.

@PBo83 being invisible is definitely useful for this

Happy birthday @stevie69

I’m 35 and still get lots of attention from a range of men... currently being harassed by my 24 year old tennis instructor for a FWB arrangement, still turn heads on the street- I attribute this to eating as well as I can, sleep, lots of exercise/Wright’s/HITT and good old melanin.

I work for a well known lingerie retailer and one of our customers said "I am 63 and I get a lot of unwanted attention from men!" I suppose it is all relative and it depends very much on the men/type of attention :)
Personally I think if you have confidence in yourself and look happy with yourself (if you know what I mean) you get a lot more attention from everyone generally...not just men

I work with the terminally ill and am quite a hit with some of the extremely elderly men at 44 I may not turn the heads of most men on the street but to an 80 plus bed bound chap I am HOT

Gradually reduced once I went through the menopause at 50 became more jowly, more wrinkly and lost my slim figure. I'm 54 and rarely get male attention now although I did get checked out the other day - a double take - funny thing is I sort of assumed I must have ketchup on my face or something embarrassing whereas when I was younger I assumed it was for other reasons.
I sometimes miss it and sometimes don't - being admired for your looks by men is a bit of a poisoned chalice. I feel braver in the world now that I'm not being looked at and can just get on being me.

"reconfirms my view that the wolf whistling was just something they do to any younger girl. "

Wolf whistling is on its last legs. It's MUCH less common now than it was 20 years ago - times have changed, not just your age.

I'm not sure when. I'm 36. But 5 years of babies mean I don't get out that much.
I used to get a lot of attention, it was the norm. I dressed to show off my figure. Which was pretty good.

If I do go out now I feel "safer" a bit more relaxed as its highly unlikely I'd be hit on.
I'm bothered about what people think of how I look because I have rock bottom self confidence but I always have been so no change there really.

But would feel more validated by a compliment from a woman rather than a man.