AIBU to cut friend out because of this?

[alessandrae83]

To cut a long story short, me and my friend have been friends for around 10 years. We both have 2 children who are all the same ages and in the same years at school. Her child recently wound my son up at school and he reacted and threatened her with telling me and said I would sort her out. Not saying threats is the right behaviour but her child came out that same day before my son and told me he had threatened her for no reason. Turned out, as I said that it wasn't for no reason and she had been mean all day with her friends to him. I was upset that she would lie to me when she knew me but I know she's just a child. I said I would speak to my friend about the situation. The next day I didn't take the children to school so my husband bumped into my friend instead and he had words. Her daughter cried over being caught out and when my husband left, my friend reported my husband to the school without mentioning it to me before, during or after. I found out when school called about my husband apparently making a child cry on site. He said he only had a quiet word. Am I wrong to be upset that she didn't talk to me first after such a close friendship if she didn't agree with what he said? She tried to carry on as if she hadn't done it. I ignored her and she chose to keep her distance since which proves how much I'm worth to her right? That's the end of the friendship. We've had some very off/on/strange things happen in these 10 years but mainly been very close.

@Frenchmontana Look at the facts that are relayed. Of course it would be checked out independently Nd parties spoken to dirct, and all information gathered, if it had been a serious incident, but on MN we can only use what OP states as that is nature of MN posts and threads. Really silly comment. 🙄🙄

This was kids stuff , the children more than likely would of been fry next day.

The picture I get from reading the thread is that he doesn’t come across as someone having a quiet word . He should of spoke to the mum to deal with if anybody same as your friend did to your friend did .

If my child was crying on the playground I would hand over to the teacher why .

I think given history of how he has treated you / his relationship with her he should of left it .

I think he will be very pleased with the results though .

@OffToBedhampton

You need to read more carefully. OP's DS threatened another little girl. OP's DH who has a history for aggressive behaviour noted by many different people started an argument in the playground in which a little girl cried and the mother felt intimidated and reported him to the school. Even by OP's own account these are the facts.

It might have been anyone who reported your husband! You don't know that it was your friend; and, unless she has lied to you in the past, I'd be inclined to believe her. Nowadays, many people would be suspicious at seeing somebody on the school grounds, especially a man (however unfair that might be), shouting at and apparently upsetting a child, especially if the child obviously wasn't his. Your husband frankly showed very poor judgement. And these are young children. On the one hand, I would not regard a young child threatening to 'tell my Mummy on' another child as a particularly serious offence. On the other hand, I also wouldn't regard the other child as a criminal for not giving a totally accurate account of events: she may not really have been lying, but just representing things as she saw them from a child's somewhat egocentric point of view. I think that you and your husband and probably your friend are escalating the situation - I'm not saying that one should just ignore children's being unkind to each other; but I think that you are taking it to an extreme that is likely to upset the children more than the original incident between them; and that if you cooled your own reactions, the children might forget the whole thing, and be good friends again the next day.

Ofgs. Cross posted with yet another silly Montana post.

Fact: It happened a while ago. DH wasn't banned from school grounds which he would have been, clearly no evidence that he'd acted inappropriately or aggressively towards a child. OP isn't doubting her DH's account of that. Those are only relevant facts. The rest is a separate issue, which OP should seek support for. There was nothing inherently abusive or unreasonable in what he did on that specific occasion. Unwise perhaps in hindsight, given Friend's previous form and that he might not have been best parent to have a quiet chat. But we don't police people's personalities, to tell them they can't speak to anyone, especially not where he indicated he was trying to help!! 😮 just RTFT at what OP relays he said . There's really no need for a schoolgate gossip witchhunt by certain MNers on an incident it's not required for.

Other PPs who are asking OP if she is ok generally are on the route I'd go down, after this unnecessary drama has a line drawn under it.

So he's succeeded in making sure you have no friends now.

Your H is to blame for this...except stepping back you should have told your DS to tell the teacher and keep the matter in school.

The more you post the worse he sounds.

miniegg those are not the facts. RTFT without making so many assumptive leaps.
I'm not condoning what appears to have been ill-judged in hindsight, but it doesn't require the overreactions & guessing seen on the thread by some PPs.

Having read other thread she has not been a good friend to you so your better of rid regardless of this situation.

I can see why your husband isn’t keen on her.

Maybe he did come across more aggressive than should and that’s something to work through with your husband.

Cut the friend out and don’t feel guilty, regardless of this situation, she has treated you badly in the past.

I would definitely look at why other mums are avoiding you with him around as could easily alienate you and that’s not good.

I'm just disappointed to see so many posters jump on a vulnerable OP, overegg what might be unrelated issues, in a way that no professional would. We take the facts as relayed, and ask OP what she wants and feels she can change if she feels it's needed.

dragon
that's good advice and helps OP move forward.

@ddl1
It's quite relevant that this wasn't said at all. A HT would say an anonymous independent party witnessed & reported this, if they had. And OP, whom we have no reason to doubt, given her openness, would have included that as it's very relevant information and would make her doubt her DH's version.

Your subsequent points are good though as useful things for OP to reflect on.

I'm less concerned about this incident and more concerned however that OP feels she can't trust her viewpoint wrt this Friend and her DH who both seem to behave at times in an unhealthy way toward her.
I wouldn't want to continue friendship with that toxic Friend given her other behaviour too. But I'd also want OP to look at whether her DH is generally isolating her by his other behaviour. It's not uncommon for DA survivors (if she is one/possibly indicated) to seem to attract other people with abusive & manipulative tendencies because they end up with skewed boundaries others realise they can push and take advantage of. It's such a shame to lose a friend of 10 years but the other information indicates she wasn't truly added value but a continuing source of more angst.

DH wasn't banned from school grounds which he would have been, clearly no evidence that he'd acted inappropriately or aggressively towards a child.

No it doesnt mean that. The woman may not have wanted to impact the the ops children and simply asked the school to ask him to speak to them if there are further issues.

The school is unlikely to have asked for witnesses and done a full forensic examination. We dont know if this woman reported it, or what she said. So him not been banned from the school is proof of nothing.

The OP acknowledges that her husband is aggressive, gas lights (so you know, lies to make himself look better and others look worse) and dislikes this woman.

She wasnt there for this conversation and given how he is in general, its more likely he isnt telling the full truth. The OP is giving the account from someone she knows lies and manipulates facts to push the blame on others.....that's gas lighting.

You are taking her account if the conversation as fact and then saying the fact that he displays abusive behaviour towards women, isnt relevant. Or course it is.

It's also telling that he dislikes this woman and wants everyone to stay away from her. This is the ops only friend. I bet alot of what the OP thinks on her is based on what he thinks. What this man, who lies to get the best outcome for himself, says. Because it's quite obvious she has been manipulated by him in the past.

You have no clue what you are talking about or what fact actually means.

OP why rehash something that happened months ago, the friendship is over...I actually think the friend is the one that's well rid.

Another silly post by Montana You do know this is MN and the only facts we can go on is what OP provides as that's the nature of MN 🙄🙄.

You have a loose definition of facts based on your guesswork and overextrapolation. It might be how your mind works and how you live your life, and it might turn out to be more underlying in the case despite current factual evidence otherwise, however you are not considering relevant facts in this instance. The rest isn't great as previously discussed, but your careless approach would make a poor outcome with so much muddling the issues and jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions in your posts.

Another silly post byMontana

When you descend into insults, you have lost the debate. If you cant debate without insulting someone, they you have no point.

We are taking what the ops says as fact.

Ops account of what happened isnt fact. She is repeating what he has told her. What's a fact is that He told her that's what happened. But she cant, and doesnt, claim to know what the facts of what happened that day.

But he has form for lying to make himself look good and others look worse - that's a fact

He is aggressive that's a fact

He dislikes this woman because she stood up to him over his poor behaviour towards OP- that's a fact.

Any professional investigating this (if it even required one) would take the fact that he doesnt like the woman, because she refused to accept his poor behaviour in the past. They would also take into account that he is a liar and aggressive, by his wifes own account.

The only 'fact' you are looking at is OP repeating what his version is. Again, the version of someone whose own wife says has form for gas lighting.

In what investigation is the recounting of a third party who wasnt there, even considered. Especially when the third party admits that the person recounting it is a known liar.

If other parents avoid you when you're with him it's not hard to see why his very presence in such close proximity could make a child distressed.

I'm not basing my views on previous threads. Just this one incident, which neither you or your H should have involved your friend.

It happened in school, not on a play date and should have been left there.

The quiet word wasn't quiet enough for the child not to hear and caused her distress.

Nobody wants to see their DC start the day like that.

It was I'll judged of you to tell your H to speak to her, with the full knowledge that he doesn't like her and that she finds him intimidating.

It was never going to end well.

I'm sure he's happy that she's out of your life though and you have no friends now.

Montana When you make so many assumptions and present them as facts, you are being ill-advised and silly. You might take that as a personal insult but look at how you've spoken to me when I've been quite clear that you're muddying the water. Check your own behaviour in this post and silly is best / kindest description I can apply to you. Shall I just say misinformed instead? As you're being obtusive to those that have set out the facts as they stand.

Any professional investigating ...
No they wouldn't as I am a professional who investigates reports & concerns. And I can tell you for certain that we aren't loose with relevant facts, as you are. Yes, we might sensibly consider historical issues and contextual information, but we would not let it colour the outcome, if is irrelevant and not applicable as an issue directly related to the facts as stated. It might raise other related concerns but it would not change outcome of a specific incident investigation within confines of actual directly related facts. To do otherwise would be incredibly unprofessional and unhelpful. You wouldn't last long in my field as your professional competency to be clear, rather than reactive and assumptive, would be called swiftly into question.

There's a difference at having ongoing concerns related to a DA history disclosed and applying that to an incident it's unrelated to. DA perpetrators aren't abusive all the time in every aspect of their behaviour to everyone.

I appreciate Montana has concerns, probably quite rightly, about DH's behaviour towards OP which has been far more sensibly addressed by others PPs and myself about those issues, than silliness using this explainable instance.

No, if you know a hoe to conduct a professional investigation you look at all relevant facts.

The OP being told the story from his point of view would never be considered a fact. It's a fact that she was told the story. But she doesnt have access to the facts.

Again Check your own behaviour in this post and silly is best / kindest description I can apply to you. Shall I just say misinformed instead? As you're being obtusive to those that have set out the facts as they stand.

Your argument is flawed so you through insults and lies.

The situation leading up to this and the man's opinion on this woman and his history of abusive behaviour towards women is relevant.

The only fact that you are using. Isnt a fact. It's a third person saying 'well I was told it wasnt his fault cause he said'. You would, as professional, treat that as fact?

I haven't posted assumptions. Its fact that he is a liar, aggressive and hat displays abusive traits.

You would last long in my field either, because we know how to conduct investigations. We know what fact is and what gossip is.

My employer that is fighting to keep me, after an offer from a headhunter, keeps me very happy in my job.

Bloody hell offtobed are you the OP'S husband you've said that because he wasn't banned from the school grounds he wasn't aggressive? You know that's stupid. If no one else saw they can't ban him from the school, OP'S friend might not have wanted him banned from the school. It certainly doesn't mean he was 100% in the wrong for escalating a silly childish spat into an argument which happened in front of children OP'S friend did the right thing by approaching the school with it. That's what op and her DH should have done if the kids falling out was really such a big deal it needed rehashing the next day.

One incident of this nature wouldn't get him banned from the school. That would be highly disproportionate.

This is what happens when parents get involved with children's disagreements. It should be a lesson to all.

If it was up to Montana she'd have a clearly manipulative Friend continue to emotionally abuse OP too. That's the reason I'm concerned enough to challenge so robustly where the issues lay.

offtobed you're bring ridiculous. There is no evidence that OP'S friend is manipulative. Literally none. Most people would feel intimidated if they were approached by man who is known to be aggressive and known to massively dislike you and he made their DC cry in the playground before school. Lots of people would report such an incident to the school. There's nothing manipulative about it.

OP'S DH by OP'S own admission is an aggressive gas lighter who has already succeeded in keeping other parents away from op. His account or his judgement is clearly not be trusted.

Where have I said that?

The friend may, be a poor friend.

I haven't once said she should remain friends with her. But she should think about whether her opinions on her friend, is influenced by her husband.

Abusers isolate their spouses. It's not a shock that this woman stood up to him and he hates her. Its not a surprise that this woman is the ops only friend and other people actively avoid her when he is around.

So yes, the OP should think about whether this friend is truly a shit friend or if her husband has had some involvement in her thinking that. I haven't said that I think the friend is a good friend. Just put up the possibility that this is further abuse from her husband.

@Frenchmontana
lol!
God luck with your important "investigations" and being "headhunted".
No statutory agency would touch you with your cavalier approach or you'd be referred quite quickly. I can only imagine you are being looser here and getting carried away because it's MN and that you wouldn't behave so poorly in your professional life.

miniegg I'm afraid you're over projecting again in your assumptions as it isn't an established fact that he behaved unreasonably in this instance. HT would talk to both parties regardless and OP would have referred to any definite outcome.
In trying to misname and portray other PPs or me as knowing or being related to OP in anyway, you are being disingenuous. And rather unhelpful when some of us are seeing things clearly and worrying OP has accepted poor ongoing manipulative abusive behaviour from a Friend.

Perhaps it's better that we all move on, as other more sensible PPs above & myself have suggested useful and supportive ways forward for OP.