AIBU or have I talked an elderly lady into paying me for not working?

[AutovillaGirl]

I work as a cleaner and I've been cleaning this one particular lady for 2 years. She's 85, very sharp, very active, very wealthy. She's moving house in 2 weeks but she told me yesterday that she was getting a cleaning company in to do the final clean of her house and so she didn't want me to clean that week and so I will not get paid. She said it would be "too much for me" - as well as the whole house she wants the empty cupboards cleaning, etc. I'm put out by this as A) it wouldn't be too much for me - I've known about the move for months so each week I've been doing extra 'deep' cleaning in certain rooms and moving what heavy furniture I can to clean behind to make it easier for myself (I thought) to do the last clean. Instead I've been making it easier for the cleaning company who will get paid, not me. B) also put out that I won't get paid for that week, I rely on my money and can't afford to miss that money.

So when I said to her that I was concerned about losing my money that week, she went on to say that my usual day was not convenient anyway as she had removal men coming in that day to start packing crockery and paintings. When I said I didn't mind working around them she said well maybe I could move one of my other clients and come a different day (but why should one of my other clients be put out?). Anyway, after a while she said for me to not come that week but grudgingly agreed to pay me for that week. Then as I was going she said "by the way, when I move house, my new house is smaller, so I'll only need you for 2 hours not 3" which I was surprised about as it's only a tiny bit smaller. My husband said I shouldn't have really asked for the money as it's up to her whether she wants me to come or not. But none of my other clients have ever done that to me, I'm reliable, thorough and punctual and rarely have a day off and they let me know they appreciate me. But have I talked her into paying me when she didn't really want to?

Feel like I've wandered into a Victorian parallel universe with some of these replies not getting paid - suck it up, you are cheeky to ask for your money, cheeky to question it, wrong to tell her you expected the money, etc. etc. I sense snobbery in some of the replies. I know I would not have got the same response if I'd said I was a maths tutor or music teacher and that someone wanted to miss a week and not pay. Maybe I should have expected to be thrashed for even daring to ask M'lady …….

I'm a tutor. As I said. Don't do the lesson don't get paid.
You might think posters sound snobby, but it's a wonder you get any cleaning done with the weight of that chip.

When my cleaner misses a week she also loses out on her money that week. She’s never mentioned expecting to be paid even if she doesn’t do the cleaning.

I think it depends if you have a contract and what it’s terms are. In case of music lessons if we cancelled due to illness we had to pay because that’s what we had signed up for. My DB is a tutor and if a student cancels they pay but if he cancels they don’t. But both cases are contractual. I do think in your clients place I’d have paid you as I was the one cancelling but if there’s no previous agreement on this eventuality she’s not obliged to.

A tutor who doesn’t have the sense to get a contract.

Often cleaners are employed on less formal terms than tutors and teachers. But it’s clear from this thread that unscrupulous homeowners cannot be trusted to employ cleaners without a contract.

Ironically it’s these people who come across ‘cheeky’ and ‘grabby’.

if you have a music teacher and you cancel a week, you would still have to pay.

I know I would not have got the same response if I'd said I was a maths tutor or music teacher and that someone wanted to miss a week and not pay.

OP you are being ridiculous & you absolutely would have got the same responses.

Music teachers & maths tutors usually have cancellation policies in place & you absolutely can cancel a regular standing appointment without charge as long as you give them enough notice, just like your client as done with you.

Nah. A tutor who might not have a contract but nor does she bully her clients into paying her when she hasn't worked.
Has the OP mentioned what her Ts and Cs in her contract are?

My reply was to Tatiana not Tinkety.

Music teachers & maths tutors usually have cancellation policies in place & you absolutely can cancel a regular standing appointment without charge as long as you give them enough notice, just like your client as done with you.

If you cancel a lesson with a music teacher at two weeks notice you have to pay for it. If you cancel regular lessons completely you usually have to give a term’s notice. Tutors tend to be shorter term but the first sentence still applies.

A tutor who might not have a contract but nor does she bully her clients into paying her when she hasn't worked.

A slightly dim one by the sound of it.

I’m sure I’ve seen threads on here from the employer’s perspective when they are going on holiday etc and the advice is to either have the cleaner come anyway or to pay them for the missed week! So I’m surprised the OP is being told she is being cheeky.

However if you used your 3 hours to do extra deep cleaning in preparation you haven’t lost out. What would you have done in that time instead?

Feel like I've wandered into a Victorian parallel universe with some of these replies not getting paid - suck it up, you are cheeky to ask for your money, cheeky to question it, wrong to tell her you expected the money, etc. etc. I sense snobbery in some of the replies. I know I would not have got the same response if I'd said I was a maths tutor or music teacher and that someone wanted to miss a week and not pay. Maybe I should have expected to be thrashed for even daring to ask M'lady …….

@AutovillaGirl bullshit. I used to be a cleaner and think you're being cheeky and grabby.

I think the contract between you and this old lady is best brought to an end op, you sound like you feel a bit used and pissed off and she sounds like she's used to getting her own way, so probably best to go your separate ways.

Interesting that so many here need a contract to be decent human beings.

If you can't afford to pay someone when you have to cancel, then maybe having someone come regularly is not for you. He/she might provide you with a service, but that's no reason to not treat him/her fairly. To mess about with people's livelihood is despicable.

Anyway, if you provide a service on a regular basis at a certain fee, surely that is an implied contract or am I missing something here? Not that I suggest that you should take it further, OP. Just be more careful in the future - this thread clearly shows that there are many CFs out there willing to take advantage of others.

I’d have told you to fudge off on your merry way while hoping the door gives you a little snap on the way out

Are you working for a company or are you self employed? If you’re self employed then it’s not her duty to ensure you get fair weekly wages.

With the attitude you have OP I wouldn't even let you back over the door. You're coming across as arrogant, grabby and entitled.

You're providing a service. You're not an employee or hired help. Would you expect someone to pay a hairdresser if they didn't do their hair with 2 weeks notice? Get over yourself, or at least get the chip off your shoulder.

From your response OP I’m wondering why you posted asking the question at all if you don’t like people disagreeing with you?

I think YABU but I also think that this can be a learning opportunity to next time get terms set out in writing so this doesn’t happen again.

You are in the right op. You have reserved a regular time for her, which means potentially turning down other clients. If she asks you not to come she should pay you.

Often cleaners are employed on less formal terms than tutors and teachers. But it’s clear from this thread that unscrupulous homeowners cannot be trusted to employ cleaners without a contract.

It's not employment. It's paying for a service. The client is not an employer. The cleaner is not an employee.

The rights or wrongs of paying when a cleaner is on holiday, or when you decide you don't need them that week are moral debates, not legal ones. The OP would be well within her rights to refuse to return to that client's house ever. Because she is self-employed and that's how things work.

I am both self-employed, and have a self-employed cleaner. We don't have a written contract. I know she does 3 hours a week on a particular morning and gets paid the same amount. We're both happy with that. I don't need a written contract because she's been coming each week for 5 years or so and I value her hugely so keep her sweet by paying for the odd week we can't have her over.

I don't really get the logic that telling a cleaner that they aren't needed for a week next month and not paying them makes them a despicable human being, but not paying the cleaner because she's sick and can't make it is just standard practice and totally fine. I mean, I get how it makes sense on a practical level, just not on a moral level.

I'm a tutor and if my clients give a day's notice they don't have to pay. I have a friend who's also a tutor but she works on a monthly basis, so clients have to pay if they cancel. My set up works better for me as I have young kids and sometimes need to cancel, so I prefer the flexibility. My friend doesn't have kids and rarely cancels so her approach suits her better. This is the joy of being self-employed, that you can set your own terms.

I think in the OP's case, she just made too many assumptions and that kicked her in the butt.

I think you were a bit cheeky here

If my elderly mum told me that her cleaner had badgered her into paying for cleaning she didn't want or need, I would not be impressed at all by the cleaner. It is the sort of the story that can impact on your professional reputation.

It's not employment. It's paying for a service. The client is not an employer. The cleaner is not an employee.

This ^^