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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU or have I talked an elderly lady into paying me for not working?

296 replies

AutovillaGirl · 13/03/2019 09:07

I work as a cleaner and I've been cleaning this one particular lady for 2 years. She's 85, very sharp, very active, very wealthy. She's moving house in 2 weeks but she told me yesterday that she was getting a cleaning company in to do the final clean of her house and so she didn't want me to clean that week and so I will not get paid. She said it would be "too much for me" - as well as the whole house she wants the empty cupboards cleaning, etc. I'm put out by this as A) it wouldn't be too much for me - I've known about the move for months so each week I've been doing extra 'deep' cleaning in certain rooms and moving what heavy furniture I can to clean behind to make it easier for myself (I thought) to do the last clean. Instead I've been making it easier for the cleaning company who will get paid, not me. B) also put out that I won't get paid for that week, I rely on my money and can't afford to miss that money.

So when I said to her that I was concerned about losing my money that week, she went on to say that my usual day was not convenient anyway as she had removal men coming in that day to start packing crockery and paintings. When I said I didn't mind working around them she said well maybe I could move one of my other clients and come a different day (but why should one of my other clients be put out?). Anyway, after a while she said for me to not come that week but grudgingly agreed to pay me for that week. Then as I was going she said "by the way, when I move house, my new house is smaller, so I'll only need you for 2 hours not 3" which I was surprised about as it's only a tiny bit smaller. My husband said I shouldn't have really asked for the money as it's up to her whether she wants me to come or not. But none of my other clients have ever done that to me, I'm reliable, thorough and punctual and rarely have a day off and they let me know they appreciate me. But have I talked her into paying me when she didn't really want to?

OP posts:

topcat2014 · 14/03/2019 20:31

I certainly wouldn't be leaving you my forwarding address, OP.

AuntMarch · 14/03/2019 20:33

Depends on time frame to me.

I book my PT on a month by month basis- when I pay him, it's for the next four weeks. If I cancel one of them he is good enough to try and fit me in elsewhere but it's not always doable, and his terms say non refundable. Which is reasonable and a contract I have entered into knowingly. If I paid him week by week without it ever being stipulated , then I wouldn't expect to pay when I didn't go.

KoalasAteMyHomework · 14/03/2019 21:15

I think her age, wealth, active lifestyle etc are totally irrelevant.
If it were me, I'd have paid my cleaner in this situation. However if terms weren't agreed when you took her on as a client, then she wasn't under any obligation to pay, but it would have been nice considering how long you've been cleaning for her. I'm a little surprised that if you knew she was moving you hadn't already chatted about what would happen the week of the move and if she would still need your services in the new house. I don't think 2 weeks notice is short notice and appreciate it's inconvenient for you, but that's the downside of being self employed. When I was freelance, I always took into account that hours and pay, even from regular clients, was not guaranteed. So I can see from both sides, and yes morally she should have probably paid you.
However, I think YABU to have assumed you would be doing a deep clean if this had not been discussed. It's quite often a big job and she may have wanted a specialist company in, or she may have thought you didn't have the equipment for deep cleaning or even felt that it was too big an ask for you and you might not have time to fit it in.
From her point of view, she offered for you to come a different more convenient time after you queried missing out on the work and you refused to be flexible/change the day. I would also think it's a bit ridiculous to have some cleaning whilst the moving people are actually there too and would think you cheeky for suggesting it. You would totally get in the way and any cleaning would be pointless with people shifting furniture about.
Frankly, I sympathise with you for missing a week's pay but think you could have handled this much better and have probably come across as quite rude.

pamhill64 · 14/03/2019 21:38

YANBU imo. If she has booked a a regular “slot” then if She wants to cancel it then she pays you. However if you cancel then you don’t get paid. Just like personal trainers, nursery’s, carer workers etc. Your time is money and people have to realise that. Tbh I’d suggest that you get future clients to read and sign a simple contract outlining expectations for cancellations and holidays/bank holidays etc to avoid any future problems. But I don’t think you are being cheeky at all

ShowMeTheKittens · 14/03/2019 22:24

To my mind cleaning is a service rather than employment

Unless of course it IS employment. Arguably, it IS employment if you are booked regularly for a slot but I would say two weeks is ample notice and I would not pay you under such circumstances. In fact I would be quite annoyed if you pressurised me about it. I think that is why she cut your hours.
I don't see it makes any difference if she is wealthy or not.That, and her arrangements are none of your business. Does not sound very kind at all on your part. She is elderly and stressed by moving house, I would apologise and refuse the money.

crimsonlake · 14/03/2019 22:59

I think you were pushy and you must know that. However I agree she should pay you if she has asked you not to come.

fatimashortbread · 14/03/2019 23:12

The ‘rule’ that I have with my cleaner is that if I don’t need her I pay her but if she can’t come (Ill, her holiday etc.) then she doesn’t get paid. I think your client is being unreasonable- get a new one

SnowyDaze · 14/03/2019 23:18

You’re not her employee and she’s given you 2 weeks notice that she doesn’t require your cleaning services on a particular date.

YABU to expect payment when you’re not doing the work.

Don’t be surprised if she decides shortly that she won’t be needing a cleaner in her new house.

Thewarrenerswife · 15/03/2019 00:06

I dont think you ABU at all. Dropping you for a one off slot, even with 2 weeks notice is an impossible was for you to run a business. If you have a weekly nursery slot for your child, if you cancel a day you still get charged (well we do anyway!). If she wants the regular slot to continue, you can’t take on another clean for that slot. Good reliable cleaners are like hens teeth. If I were you I’d think about dropping her and finding a client to replace her.

ArcheryAnnie · 15/03/2019 00:37

If she's hiring your services regularly, if she cancels then the right thing would be for her to pay you, as realistically you keep that time for her and would not be able to replace her with another client just for that one week.

She sounds like an immoral tightwad. I'd find a new client.

llizzie · 15/03/2019 02:32

She does not deserve you. In her place I would want you more often and she really needs a familiar face on moving day and all the week. I wonder if she realises just what moving house is all about? Perhaps she knows how difficult it is and wants a strange cleaning company in so that she can shout at them and get stuff off her chest!! You never know! Perhaps this cleaning company has steam carpet and upholstery machines and cleaning the oven for the new people will not be a job I would enjoy. If the oven and fridge are free standing they will have to pull them out to clean behind and underneath them. Do you really want to do that? Can you imagine what lurks in her cupboards and other places. If they don't do a good enough job she can tell them off. Would she tell you off too? Perhaps there are relatives who have suggested it. Maybe when the time comes she will want you near her just to do the everyday jobs. You sound too nice for her to treat you badly. If she does, she doesn't deserve you.

llizzie · 15/03/2019 02:40

If it is not too bold an ask, can I know how much she pays per hour?

Chubbyorcuddly · 15/03/2019 06:33

Are you self employed or an employee? If you are an employee and were ready and available for work you should have been paid. You have more than 2 years service so you have full employment rights.

caringcarer · 15/03/2019 15:06

If you have a written contract for three hours each week then you should be paid if not then no, you took advantage of her good will. I have a cleaner but no contract with her, When I go on holiday in summer for a month I ask her to only come once a week instead of two as only adult children there and they at work all day and she does not clean their rooms so less to do but she will do other stuff like moving out cupboards and cleaning behind, washing and rehanging curtains. When my cleaner has her holiday I pay her when she does not come because she is good and reliable, but that is my choice, she does not ask for pay when she does not come.

Crazyunicornlady · 16/03/2019 08:37

It all depends on whether you are self-employed, an employee or a worker as to your rights and entitlements.

Not saying you want to get into a massive conflict over this but if you think it’s not right then talk to citizens advice or a lawyer to establish which category you fall into.

SnowyAlpsandPeaks · 16/03/2019 08:56

If you can have your ‘pick of customers’ as you said, then missing that week isn’t a problem. So why are you whinging? Genuinely confused.

PCohle · 16/03/2019 10:46

Even if OP were an employee (which she isn't) statutory notice to terminate her employment would only be two weeks notice anyway, surely?

Original poster

AutovillaGirl · 16/03/2019 16:54

I've since spoken to a couple of cleaners about this and they say that contract or not, they would not work for someone who asked them to not come and wouldn't pay for that week. In the summer when people go on holidays it could mean the cleaner losing a lot of money. I've decided to make next week my last week and won't be taking the money for the week that she cancelled as I've already had 2 new client offers (word of mouth - my other clients have recommended me).

OP posts:

HeronLanyon · 16/03/2019 17:05

Well done fornsorting it out op. I do see her POV though. The week of her moving house I completely understand is nothing like a summer holiday - I get it that she needed different cleaning (still think it’s a shame you and she didn’t speak about it so you could do it) that one week. Hmmm well done anyway as you were not happy about the situation.

gamerchick · 16/03/2019 17:25

Good for you OP it doesn't matter what it says in law and rights and all that shit. Fact is if you get a good reliable cleaner you don't quibble and penny pinch because they're disposable.... Because the good ones are able to turn down work.

Its like people think cleaners should be grateful and they're doing them a favour.

Blarblarblar · 17/03/2019 22:58

Good news. You deserve to be treated with respect for the work you do hopefully your new folks will appreciate it.

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