AIBU or have I talked an elderly lady into paying me for not working?

[AutovillaGirl]

I work as a cleaner and I've been cleaning this one particular lady for 2 years. She's 85, very sharp, very active, very wealthy. She's moving house in 2 weeks but she told me yesterday that she was getting a cleaning company in to do the final clean of her house and so she didn't want me to clean that week and so I will not get paid. She said it would be "too much for me" - as well as the whole house she wants the empty cupboards cleaning, etc. I'm put out by this as A) it wouldn't be too much for me - I've known about the move for months so each week I've been doing extra 'deep' cleaning in certain rooms and moving what heavy furniture I can to clean behind to make it easier for myself (I thought) to do the last clean. Instead I've been making it easier for the cleaning company who will get paid, not me. B) also put out that I won't get paid for that week, I rely on my money and can't afford to miss that money.

So when I said to her that I was concerned about losing my money that week, she went on to say that my usual day was not convenient anyway as she had removal men coming in that day to start packing crockery and paintings. When I said I didn't mind working around them she said well maybe I could move one of my other clients and come a different day (but why should one of my other clients be put out?). Anyway, after a while she said for me to not come that week but grudgingly agreed to pay me for that week. Then as I was going she said "by the way, when I move house, my new house is smaller, so I'll only need you for 2 hours not 3" which I was surprised about as it's only a tiny bit smaller. My husband said I shouldn't have really asked for the money as it's up to her whether she wants me to come or not. But none of my other clients have ever done that to me, I'm reliable, thorough and punctual and rarely have a day off and they let me know they appreciate me. But have I talked her into paying me when she didn't really want to?

I definitely pay my cleaner if I don't need her one week - but don't usually pay if she cancels on me. This seems completely reasonable to me, and is different to employing a cleaner through an agency who I would expect could be offered alternative work.

However I wouldn't necessarily employ my existing cleaner to do a "moving" clean so I think you were being a bit unreasonable in assuming that it would be your job unless she suggested it. And unless you were doing more than your current 3 hours to do the extra jobs, I don't think you can complain really.

Re the new job she is offering with reduced hours - I personally would look for a new client that could offer the three hours I needed but it might be depend on availability of work in your area. In my area, good cleaners are like gold dust, so it would be easy to replace a client.

I think you should be paid as normal, not your fault the move is happening when you’d normally be there and yes, why should another client be accommodating a time change? I know it’s not the same as full employment, but I don’t think it’s fair to self employed people, as you say, you rely on that money as much as if you had a permanent contract with a company. And you have done nothing to cause this cancellation.

My dad has a weekly shop done by a self employed woman and occasionally she’s away so cannot do one week. I thought about stopping the standing order for those rare weeks, then I thought, no, that’s her holiday pay, it’s not much, my dad can afford it and so I never said anything, the money still gets paid. I’m sure she’s grateful I don’t nit pick about it. She deserves paid holiday time as much as anyone! If people disagree with that, then consider rates would need to be put up by the self employed person if they are to, in essence, pay themselves for holiday time. Or perhaps people don't see a cleaner's rest and recuperation as important in any way...

Another example, different, but I think relevant, is when I had weekly counselling sessions. I was going on holiday for two weeks and so asked if I could not pay for those appointments. The deal was no, I had to pay as part of the counselling course. Not the therapist's fault I wasn't there, so why should she lose out because of my going away? I paid up. Best 1500 quid I ever spent, that year of psychotherapy, I was going to post it in the 'best buys' thread.

Just for clarity, I only mentioned that my client was wealthy in case some thought maybe she could not afford to pay me. She used to be a high powered business woman and is still super active, is a chairwoman on many committees, drives herself all around the country to events and has the energy of someone half her age, she is also bossy and very strong-minded. She hosts a lot of meetings at her house and has frequent house guests, so I only managed to fit in the extra deep-cleaning when not sorting out guest bedrooms and cleaning extra bathrooms. She is not downsizing due to lack of money as she has more than one property, but moving to somewhere without stairs. I agree with those comments in that I would not expect to be paid if I decided to miss a week. If I had not mentioned her age and money I don't think I would have had such negative comments. As people said, if you have a music teacher and you cancel a week, you would still have to pay. Some people seem to view cleaners as mere servants who do not deserve respect. But there are enough nice clients out there for us to pick and choose. Some cleaners do one-off cleans, but I have the same clients week after week. I don't get paid if I have time off for a holiday, it's not a very well paid job and it's hard work. I see myself as offering a valuable service, my clients look forward to me coming, they know I am accommodating - I will change my times if they have an appointment, I'll do extra jobs, I'm reliable - many of them have had bad cleaners in the past and so value me. I feel as if this client has been taking me for granted for a while, so think it's time to move on. Thank you to those with encouraging comments!

What is a suitable notice period if 2 weeks is too short notice? Our community fb page sometimes has ads from cleaners with last minute/one off availability. If Op did this it might be a good way to get in with potential new customer as will need to make up the extra hour she wont have with current lady when she moves.
Also when moving its often the case that you would not know the week/day you move until 2-3 weeks before but maybe she should have made clear in advance she wouldnt need op during moving week (whenever that happened to be).
Ive never had a cleaner or been a cleaner so not familiar with the correct etiquette.

If you can pick and choose your clients why can't you fill a cleaning slot with two weeks advance notice?

If I ever need a cleaner I'll go through an agency, even if it's dearer, so that conditions are clear to both parties. So many problems seem to arise from the lack of a proper contract.
In OP's case I would be annoyed as the client wants to retain her services in the new house. But we still have no clarity about notice etc. It's all very vague.

I would say for cancelling and not paying 4 weeks notice. Most people pay bills monthly so need to be able to budget for a month at a time. Anything less than 4 weeks notice has to be paid.

I totally agree with you @AutovillaGirl The Client has been taking you for granted and you don't need the stress of working for someone who does not value you and your work.
I am glad you have some lovely people who appreciate what you do!

I am sure you will come highly recommended by your other Clients to fill those 3hours.

You can do without the hassle of someone who treats you like some second class citizen.

How on Earth is the Op taking advantage of this little old lady? The wealthy, older client is taking advantage of the Op’s youth and energy and is being parsimonious in only offering her 2 hours work a week. It would not be worth her time or effort in getting there. She knows she should pay her cleaner if she has made other arrangements.

YABU. She didn't ask you to deep clean a little every day in preparation for the big clean before the move. You volunteered. It's not her fault that she doesn't want your service in that particular week. Like a pp said, you don't pay a hairdresser if you don't use her service. Why should she pay you if you are not cleaning? Did you sign a contract with her to the effect of you being her sole cleaner for a certain period of time? Was there even a verbal agreement?

The wealthy, older client is taking advantage of the Op’s youth and energy and is being parsimonious in only offering her 2 hours work a week.

I thought two hours a week was quite normal?

I would pay - I had a cleaner until about a year ago and know perfectly well they have their own bills to pay and suddenly cannot have time off. In fact we paid our last one for 5 or 6 weeks in the summer when she went back to her homeland for the whole summer with her children and she wasn't working which was incredible generous really.

I'm glad to see that the tone has changed in this thread. If I cancel our cleaner, of course I'd still pay her! It's her livelihood and I expect her to have time for me every week. Any other comparisons are unjust. Or, does it mean that those of you who wouldn't pay accept less pay at work when work is more quiet?

EastWestNorth how can a large house be cleaned in 2 hours. The Op has said the woman has meetings and guests staying in her home and bedding needs changing, bathrooms need cleaning.

Unless there's something in place, is it not the case that it would have been nice for the lady to pay, but not obligatory?

YABU

Cringe, sounds like she's got her own back by cutting your hours so sounds like you've lost out overall for being cheeky.

Being cheeky? She is providing a reliable and regular week in week out service to a client who has suddenly cancelled and its "Cheeky" to question it?
How dare a woman question her fee? The client is trying to save a bit of money by not having the cleaner during moving week and expecting her to turn up to the new place having lost a weeks pay, then saying the new place is smaller (apparently not that much smaller) and cutting her hours. by a third.
I know who I think is being cheeky here.

If I cancel the cleaner I pay.
If the cleaner cancels I don’t.
Plenty of people around who want cleaners op, sack her.

It's a business relationship, not a friendship. Cheeky doesn't really come into it.

Regardless of how anyone feels about the employer's behaviour, the OP clearly handled it badly from the perspective of receiving ongoing business.

I found this OP.. you could adapt it to individual circumstances and give a copy to all your clients, so you won't be in this position again. www.lawdepot.co.uk/contracts/cleaning-agreement/?loc=GB&pid=msnppc-servag_gb-cleaning_y1-msnkey_cleaning%20contract&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&MSCLKID=57ea09bb93061458f02d5532a96a307f

As a retired cleaner, I know what it's like to get used to a job and the money, but I think you were wrong to tell her you need the money for that week. I think if I was her I'd be a bit put off employing you after the move. If you're losing an hour, simple! - Find another job to make up the hour. By the way, the fact that she is wealthy and can afford the payment is actually none of your business.

EastWestNorth how can a large house be cleaned in 2 hours.

Depends what the client wants. OP was able to clean the larger house in three hours and also do extra deep cleaning within that time.

Anyway, it's all irrelevant. The OP is reliable and hardworking and is valued by her other clients, so will soon find more work to replace the three hours. As she said, the relationship has run its course.

Not actually sure why the age of the client was relevant, given that we were told later how active and busy she is.

I don’t have a clearer and can’t afford one but I think YABU to not have a written agreement in place. It doesn’t have to be complex but you need to cover things like notice periods to save issues like this from arising. I’m afraid you’ve taken a gamble in not having a contract or agreement and unfortunately, it’s backfired. FWIW, I’d have paid you but still think you’ve been foolish but I hope you do get a contract in place moving forward.

I give private lessons (like the music teacher example) and my clients don't pay me if they cancel. Because they don't have a contract with me. That's the way it goes.