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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or have I talked an elderly lady into paying me for not working?

296 replies

AutovillaGirl · 13/03/2019 09:07

I work as a cleaner and I've been cleaning this one particular lady for 2 years. She's 85, very sharp, very active, very wealthy. She's moving house in 2 weeks but she told me yesterday that she was getting a cleaning company in to do the final clean of her house and so she didn't want me to clean that week and so I will not get paid. She said it would be "too much for me" - as well as the whole house she wants the empty cupboards cleaning, etc. I'm put out by this as A) it wouldn't be too much for me - I've known about the move for months so each week I've been doing extra 'deep' cleaning in certain rooms and moving what heavy furniture I can to clean behind to make it easier for myself (I thought) to do the last clean. Instead I've been making it easier for the cleaning company who will get paid, not me. B) also put out that I won't get paid for that week, I rely on my money and can't afford to miss that money.

So when I said to her that I was concerned about losing my money that week, she went on to say that my usual day was not convenient anyway as she had removal men coming in that day to start packing crockery and paintings. When I said I didn't mind working around them she said well maybe I could move one of my other clients and come a different day (but why should one of my other clients be put out?). Anyway, after a while she said for me to not come that week but grudgingly agreed to pay me for that week. Then as I was going she said "by the way, when I move house, my new house is smaller, so I'll only need you for 2 hours not 3" which I was surprised about as it's only a tiny bit smaller. My husband said I shouldn't have really asked for the money as it's up to her whether she wants me to come or not. But none of my other clients have ever done that to me, I'm reliable, thorough and punctual and rarely have a day off and they let me know they appreciate me. But have I talked her into paying me when she didn't really want to?

OP posts:
whodidapoopoointhebath · 14/03/2019 17:34

We have a cleaner and we are both flexible. Towards the end of my maternity leave I asked if they could come every other week because of money which was fine. I don’t ever cancel but have sometimes changed the day but then so have they.

When I’m on holiday they don’t come every week and I don’t expect to pay.

I think she should have asked if you wanted to do the deep clean personally first so I can understand you being annoyed at that.

I think you have to think a bit of the bigger picture re the drop from 3-2 hours, I’d personally play it a little carefully otherwise she may get another cleaner.

Rtruth · 14/03/2019 17:37

Wow... I can see why she’d Use a company, or do you have insurance for if the clean isn’t up to scratch?
Also I can see why you are put out for a few hours work and think she has been kind by paying. However you are being unreasonable if she now wants a 2 hour clean instead of 3, that’s her call.

Teacher22 · 14/03/2019 17:43

I think this old lady is being very ungracious if you have worked well for her for years.

When my DH looked as if her was going to be made redundant I had to let my lovely lady go and gave her more than double wages to make up for it as a thank you.

laraitopbanana · 14/03/2019 17:51

I don’t think you have talked her into doing anything.
She obviously want to keep you and understood that she was putting you in a difficult position not paying you for this particular week.
That said, can’t you just put a “day off” then being paid while not working make sense. If you paid only for the work and have no contract whatsoever with her then I would not take the money.

Janeybobs · 14/03/2019 17:57

You’ve committed a regular slot to her each week if she’s cancelling she needs to pay, it’s not like you can easily substitute a replacement client for the slot. Diff from if u cancel.

Ringsender2 · 14/03/2019 18:00

Going by the first and last pages I think I'm going against the grain here.

I don't think YWBU. As PP said, she's reserved you at the same time each week for your services. You can't sell that time elsewhere.

I think it's bad form that she didn't offer you your wages for cancelling on you.

However she wasn't BU about not offering you the deep clean work, although I can see why you were disappointed.

FWIW for our chid minder I always pay if i cancel. I pay over some holidays too. She doesn't get paid if she cancels. I don't absolutely love handing money over for something I haven't got the benefit from, but it's the right and fair thing to do. Anything else is crappy zero-hour contract type behaviour.

Nearly47 · 14/03/2019 18:21

I disagree with people say it isn't employment. If she works there every week it is employment and she probably could take the employer to court not paying her holidays, notice, etc.

user68901 · 14/03/2019 18:27

I think she should pay you. She didn't discuss with you. I think when this is your income that its poor form to cancel at the last minute.
I would never cancel my cleaner or my dog walker for instance if it turned out i didn't need them that day, or I would at least pay them. I think you did the right thing to try and stand your ground . This is why people charge cancellation fees for no-shows to appointments. People forget this is your regular income and if they want to cancel you need sufficient notice to be able to arrange other work to supplement the lost income.

angelfacecuti75 · 14/03/2019 18:29

It's still a job at the end of the day, it's "your job" and if she's known re it for months she could have warned you earlier . I wpuld be saying to her that she can find a new cleaner.

Blarblarblar · 14/03/2019 18:31

I think you have had a really rough time OP and I do not understand at all. It’s bad manners to cancel a regular appointment and expect not to pay. My beautician and hairdresser has a cancel and you still pay policy. Of course you rely on that expected income. Going forward maybe say to new clients that if they cancel at short notice then they will still be expected to pay. My mind is really blown that people are saying you behaved badly. Ditch her get another client.

HipHopTheHippieToTheHipHipHop · 14/03/2019 18:35

OP - I think not only are you BU but you’re a CF too

SileneOliveira · 14/03/2019 18:37

I disagree with people say it isn't employment. If she works there every week it is employment and she probably could take the employer to court not paying her holidays, notice, etc.

Rubbish. You really shouldn't spout nonsense when you don't have a clue what you're on about.

Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
they can hire someone else to do the work
they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish
they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work
they can work for more than one client

Hailthelime · 14/03/2019 18:38

It depends whether she wants you to continue cleaning for her or not. You can’t just find someone to take her slot for a one off therefore I would consider it an unofficial contract. You rely on that money. If she doesn’t want you anymore you will find a replacement cleaning job for that slot

Arthur2shedsJackson · 14/03/2019 18:40

I think the OP is getting a totally unnecessary and unfair flaming on here. Back in the day - not so much lately - we used to frequently go away for 6 weeks at a time and always paid our cleaning lady for the time we were away. She totally relied on our money and it would have been wrong to deprive her of her income just because we weren’t there. I doubt she went to our house for all the hours she was paid for and it didn’t matter. The house was always immaculate when we got back and every last conceivable job had been done. We valued her diligence and integrity and she repaid us with loyalty and a value-added approach to her work.
The fact that OP is being accused of being cheeky and a con merchant is beyond belief.

Arthur2shedsJackson · 14/03/2019 18:44

And who the fuck can decide that the employer is a ‘sweet old lady?’
She sounds as much of a bitch as people are calling the OP.

Fififerry1 · 14/03/2019 18:47

I am shocked that most people are saying OP was cheeky. Like some others I would pay if I cancel and not pay if cleaner cancelled.
It is also cheeky of her to reduce your hours and just expect you to change to suit her. You can’t just make up another hour with another client.
I would be looking for another client and make your terms clear.

Dieu · 14/03/2019 18:47

It was a bit pushy to offer to work around the removal men.

Jasmineallenestate · 14/03/2019 18:53

I have done things like her when trying to phase out someone I didnt want but was too weak to be honest with. She clearly wants a company, perhaps because it is oess personal, as you seem a little sensitive. It's probably just that she prefers that rather thatln a slight on you but I would take the hint. My worst was when I hated my hairdresser and felt obliged, when I lived in Dubai. The utter relief when he was sacked and deported for some drunken misdemeanor was amazing Grin

Jane1727 · 14/03/2019 19:04

Whenever I have had a cleaner if it was my choice they didn’t work one week I would still pay them (only fair) if they couldn’t make it I wouldn’t.

CustardCreamLover · 14/03/2019 19:09

I'm a tutor and don't charge my clients if they miss a week. We just reschedule. I suppose it depends on how much you like them and if you are willing to be flexible. If you're really busy then she was unreasonable to as you to swap your normal day and probably she should have given you more notice about the move but you also could have clarified with her yourself rather than just assuming she would need you. Sometimes I think people forget that they can be proactive and not just expect to rely on others. It's your business so it's up to you to make sure you know where your income is coming from.

Chocolateislife88 · 14/03/2019 19:20

I dont think you're being unreasonable. You've worked for her for 2 years, so I think it would of been polite of her to ask if you'd be happy to do the job. It would also of been polite of her to let you know sooner about the changes in hours.

Ginseng1 · 14/03/2019 19:36

I have a cleaner every second week. I don't pay her unless she's here. it's v rare I cancel n if I do its in advance I offer her an alternative which she takes me up on or not as it suits her. In your case she should have given u a heads up earlier she was getting a company in & maybe asked u to work or help on day of removals. If u were nudging away at a deep clean maybe not enough work for 3hrs. As for her dropping from 3 to 2 hrs- that's her business & if it doesn't suit u maybe u should start looking for new client.

FairyMoppings · 14/03/2019 19:40

NRTFT, but....

I'm a domestic cleaner. My clients are my service users, not my employers, and if I don't clean I don't request, or expect, payment. Why would anyone pay for a service they haven't received?

If my clients go on holiday/have the builders in/are ill/move house (whatever) and don't need me that week, I don't invoice them and I wouldn't dream of guilt tripping them into still paying me. Very uncouth and unprofessional imo.

What I do, to ensure I can still pay myself the same amount each week, is only pay myself 75% of my earnings (from my business account to my personal account) so I have money saved for covering my taxes/NI and those inevitable days when I have cancellations.

Unless you have a contract that states set hours and your client has signed and agreed to still pay you when you're not required, then I think you're out of order OP. I wouldn't be surprised if she drops you very soon.

manicmij · 14/03/2019 20:05

If you have a contract, what does it say about changing amount of hours each work and what is to happen if the service is cancelled for any amount of time/days eg your client cancels for a couple of weeks. I did have a cleaner, no contract though and when I went on holiday or cancelled for any reason I did pay the usual rate. If cleaner cancelled or went on holiday, I didn't pay. Your actions as well as your client's all depends on what your contract states.

lozster · 14/03/2019 20:09

YANBU

My partner is free lance. He is often booked, reserves time and is then cancelled having given up other work. We curse and grind our teeth BUT the difference is he works adhoc and his day rate reflects the uncertainty of adhoc work. Your situation is completely different. You had a regular pattern of work and set time aside on a weekly basis. I am assuming that your day rate is standard for a cleaner so above minimum wage but not vastly so. Your charge reflects regular service not adhoc service. Where I am, the rate for an adhoc clean is higher than for a regular cleaning slot. So whilst it may have been nice to say don’t pay me, I understand why you are put out. If the woman wants cleaning as and when then she can pay an adhoc rate and accept the inconvenience that might come with that ie. a cleaner is not available.

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