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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or have I talked an elderly lady into paying me for not working?

296 replies

AutovillaGirl · 13/03/2019 09:07

I work as a cleaner and I've been cleaning this one particular lady for 2 years. She's 85, very sharp, very active, very wealthy. She's moving house in 2 weeks but she told me yesterday that she was getting a cleaning company in to do the final clean of her house and so she didn't want me to clean that week and so I will not get paid. She said it would be "too much for me" - as well as the whole house she wants the empty cupboards cleaning, etc. I'm put out by this as A) it wouldn't be too much for me - I've known about the move for months so each week I've been doing extra 'deep' cleaning in certain rooms and moving what heavy furniture I can to clean behind to make it easier for myself (I thought) to do the last clean. Instead I've been making it easier for the cleaning company who will get paid, not me. B) also put out that I won't get paid for that week, I rely on my money and can't afford to miss that money.

So when I said to her that I was concerned about losing my money that week, she went on to say that my usual day was not convenient anyway as she had removal men coming in that day to start packing crockery and paintings. When I said I didn't mind working around them she said well maybe I could move one of my other clients and come a different day (but why should one of my other clients be put out?). Anyway, after a while she said for me to not come that week but grudgingly agreed to pay me for that week. Then as I was going she said "by the way, when I move house, my new house is smaller, so I'll only need you for 2 hours not 3" which I was surprised about as it's only a tiny bit smaller. My husband said I shouldn't have really asked for the money as it's up to her whether she wants me to come or not. But none of my other clients have ever done that to me, I'm reliable, thorough and punctual and rarely have a day off and they let me know they appreciate me. But have I talked her into paying me when she didn't really want to?

OP posts:
DameFanny · 13/03/2019 10:26

Wow there's a lot of Scrooges on this thread that I wouldn't want to work for. I think your client was bvu for not offering to pay you for the cancelled week - but this is how wealthy people stay wealthy...

TatianaLarina · 13/03/2019 10:27

My mother is 81, wealthy and perfectly able to organise her affairs. All this old lady stuff is ridiculous. She has a cleaner herself, no way would she refuse to pay her for a week, she pays her for the week she doesn’t work at Christmas.

Musti · 13/03/2019 10:27

I don't see why you're annoyed that you cleaned to make the cleaning company's life easier. I presumed you got paid for the time you were cleaning? Also wouldn't it make more sense to clean behind the furniture once the furniture has gone?

TatianaLarina · 13/03/2019 10:28

but this is how wealthy people stay wealthy...

It’s not how all wealthy people behave, only the unscrupulous ones.

TheInvestigator · 13/03/2019 10:28

If you're self employed and not with an agency then you should have a contract which states exactly how missing weeks works.

It should say how much holiday time you take each year, and it should say that your holiday time is at your discretion.
It should say how much notice they need to give if cancelling without a fee and then what fee they need to pay if they cancel a clean too late.

If you havnt got a cancellation policy, then you shouldn't have hinted at getting the money. You also can't be angry when someone chooses not to use you for a certain service; it's up to them what services they use for each job.

Princessmushroom · 13/03/2019 10:29

You’re clearly in the wrong here. You get to enjoy the flexibility of not being employed and this is one of the down sides.

diddl · 13/03/2019 10:29

"All these people who would diddle their workers without notice."

Did someone call???Grin

I think it might be that some people don't know the ins & outs of when they should be paying.

But it does seem that she's right that 2hrs will be enough.

HelloMonday · 13/03/2019 10:29

YABVU she gave you two weeks notice!

If the cleaning company does a good job, maybe she'll take them on for her regular clean. Cos I'd find you very pushy, regardless how well you think you clean

IceRebel · 13/03/2019 10:31

After 2 years you’re effectively her employee, even though you don’t have a contract.

It doesn't work like that. Op is a self employeed cleaner, not an employee.

All these people who would diddle their workers without notice. Disgraceful.

She was give 2 weeks notice, so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

HotpotLawyer · 13/03/2019 10:31

It would have been considerate for her to have discussed this with you with more notice.

It seems you have more hours than you need for her if you were able to incorporate extra deep cleaning,

If I had a regular cleaner and they were messed about by my moving day I would pay.

But in the absence of a contract detailing holidays, cancellation on both sides etc, I would see it as a goodwill payment.

And I would be bloody irritated by your arguing about it.

It’s not unreasonable to get a professional deep clean co on moving day. The house has to be emptied and left clean and vacant usually by 12 noon. She may be looking at carpet cleaners, floor waxers, whatever.

PenelopeFlintstone · 13/03/2019 10:32

A lot of people think like that, I certainly don't

The rule is if the cleaner is self employed when SHE doesnt come, I don't pay her. If I don't need her to come I ll pay her normal hours

I agree with the above. There are a lot of tight people on here and, considering most cleaners are women, you're not very good for the sisterhood.

TatianaLarina · 13/03/2019 10:33

It does work like that Ice, it’s worked like that with every single cleaner I’ve ever had. Two weeks notice is nowhere near enough. The lady has known she was moving for months.

JustBloodyCold · 13/03/2019 10:34

I think she should have offered you first refusal on the final clean. It's up to you to decide that whether it's too much for you and I think it was rude to bring in another company without giving you that opportunity.

I also think it's out of order to give you 2 weeks notice when she's very obviously known about it for some time. How much notice do you give clients of a day you're taking as leave?

I think, if I were her and you are a good cleaner, I would have behaved differently since in my experience, good cleaners are like hens' teeth.

So, when she moves I'd be looking for another customer to fill your 3 hour slot and not give up the hour she says she no longer needs. I certainly wouldn't be working for her for 2 hours + and only being paid for 2.

Finally, is this a good opportunity to set these things out with new clients before you take them on? I will give you X weeks notice of my holidays and you will give me X weeks notice of not needing me to give me the chance to fill the slot.

anothernamereally · 13/03/2019 10:34

I pay mine if I cancel but wouldn't if they cancelled

ViolaD77 · 13/03/2019 10:35

I think maybe you are looking at this from a personal view and not professional. She doesn't have any loyalty to you even if you do to her so don't get conflicted with this. If she doesn't need you to clean then accept that, that's business.... otherwise it can cause bad feeling.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 13/03/2019 10:37

This is exactly why I hire my cleaner through an agency. If I don’t need a clean then I can easily cancel and don’t have to pay. The cleaner isn’t my employee or responsibility and I am happy to pay the agency fee for that.

HotSauceCommittee · 13/03/2019 10:40

Fucking Hell, people treat cleaners like shit. It’s a valid job that should be paid with a living wage.
I pay my cleaner sick and holiday pay and we once cancelled her because one of the DCs had flu having caught it off the other; we paid her. She’s been to other clients, turned up as arranged (she does regular slots) and they’ve decided there and then that they don’t need her and then sent her away without paying her Sad
I pay her so I can go to work and have a nice clean house. In turn, I get paid more, get holiday and sick pay and get treated like a human being so I’m sure my cleaner like this too.
If you can’t afford to treat your cleaner decently, you shouldn’t be employing one.
I hope you find a nicer employee, OP.

sar302 · 13/03/2019 10:41

On the very rare occasions when I can't fit into my cleaners regularly cleaning slot, I don't pay her. She has lots of other stuff on, so no real flexibility. But then likewise when she goes on holiday, I don't get my house cleaned - so it's flexible both ways.

There's no way I would have one person doing a deep clean after a move, I'd also hire a professional company, purely because of the amount of work. Too much for one person.

If she can't give you the hours you want, you have the flexibility to pick up a new client and tell her you can't do her house anymore.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 13/03/2019 10:41

Pmsl, normally when someone comes on to ask whether they should pay their cleaner when they don't need them at short notice the answer is a resounding 'yes', with added sides of cheapskate treating their hired help poorly.

Now 'the help' is here having stood up for being told at very short notice that they wouldn't be needed they are 'grabby' and 'unattractively pushy'...wtf does that even mean?!

General rule of thumb is that if you cancel your cleaner at short notice you pay, they cancel on you you don't. Same goes here .

If I were you I would have tried to change the day however.

Lweji · 13/03/2019 10:43

I do think that if you want a regular service, then you should pay for weeks you don't need it through no fault of the service provider.
The alternative would be that the cleaner (or regular service provider) could cancel at any time too or only go when they don't get better offers for occasional work.
If that works for the client, fine, otherwise, the client should pay at the odd times the service is not required, or book the service every week at the risk that the provider finds some other work or is already booked. In that sense a regular cleaner can't really be compared to a hairdresser, IMO.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 13/03/2019 10:43

Wow!

I can’t believe you insisted on coming to a clients house on a day she didn’t need you!! She doesn’t owe you work that she doesn’t want doing. How greedy of you. You’re self employed, that means no guaranteed income. Yes it sucks if a client doesn’t need you one week but that’s part and parcel of the job! You have to manage your money so that you can cope with gaps in work. If any of my clients say they don’t need me a certain week I say “no problem, is it business as usual for the following week?” And I will usually try and fill the gap by advertising on Facebook. It isn’t your clients job to provide you a regular income if they don’t need the work done. You’ve behaved really badly.

Thecabbageassasin · 13/03/2019 10:43

If it wasn’t for the age of the woman everyone would be saying how tight she was.
Fair enough you’re not employed by her so technically she doesn’t have to pay you, but the decent thing to do would be to pay you for your lost hours, to keep you in good favour if nothing else.
Some hairdressers charge a cancellation fee if you book and don’t turn up without enough notice, how much notice did she give you.

Whereareyouspot · 13/03/2019 10:43

I pay my cleaner if I cancel
She has bills and kids to feed
Why would I expect she can just lose work on my day so?

PCohle · 13/03/2019 10:49

Well generally if I cancelled on my cleaner, I would pay her. If she cancelled on me, I wouldn't.

However, unless you have a contract to that effect, I don't think she was any under obligation to pay to. I think being pushy about it to a vulnerable client has backfired because she's now cutting your hours and possibly phasing you out.

SarahSissions · 13/03/2019 10:51

I would just be a little wary of commenting that she is 'very wealthy'. Many older people have big houses, but not much disposable cash- it sounds like she is downsizing- perhaps to release some cash.
It is quite easy to look at people and be envious because they have a lot of 'stuff', but in reality you don't actually know her true financial situation