AIBU or have I talked an elderly lady into paying me for not working?

[AutovillaGirl]

I work as a cleaner and I've been cleaning this one particular lady for 2 years. She's 85, very sharp, very active, very wealthy. She's moving house in 2 weeks but she told me yesterday that she was getting a cleaning company in to do the final clean of her house and so she didn't want me to clean that week and so I will not get paid. She said it would be "too much for me" - as well as the whole house she wants the empty cupboards cleaning, etc. I'm put out by this as A) it wouldn't be too much for me - I've known about the move for months so each week I've been doing extra 'deep' cleaning in certain rooms and moving what heavy furniture I can to clean behind to make it easier for myself (I thought) to do the last clean. Instead I've been making it easier for the cleaning company who will get paid, not me. B) also put out that I won't get paid for that week, I rely on my money and can't afford to miss that money.

So when I said to her that I was concerned about losing my money that week, she went on to say that my usual day was not convenient anyway as she had removal men coming in that day to start packing crockery and paintings. When I said I didn't mind working around them she said well maybe I could move one of my other clients and come a different day (but why should one of my other clients be put out?). Anyway, after a while she said for me to not come that week but grudgingly agreed to pay me for that week. Then as I was going she said "by the way, when I move house, my new house is smaller, so I'll only need you for 2 hours not 3" which I was surprised about as it's only a tiny bit smaller. My husband said I shouldn't have really asked for the money as it's up to her whether she wants me to come or not. But none of my other clients have ever done that to me, I'm reliable, thorough and punctual and rarely have a day off and they let me know they appreciate me. But have I talked her into paying me when she didn't really want to?

Gosh of course you should pay your cleaner if you cancel. They rely on the income- and in most places there's a shortage of decent cleaners so I'd be wanting to retain mine.

Plus some posters need to stop being so patronising about older people- comments about railroading the elderly or how here friends and family should be worried. Not everyone elderly is vulnerable lol

YANBU . In your situation I would have expected more respect and consideration than was given; contract or no contract self-employed or not. And I do think the " wealthy" matters because she did not spring these changes on you because of lack of money but lack of respect.
I would be thinking twice about cleaning for her in the new house if I could find a substitute placement.

She should pay you, to retain you, as you do with a childminder.

If she had been ending your contract, then she had the right to finish you a week early. But as she isn't, she should pay.

She should have more respect for you and have communicated better.

FWIW I think you're being completely fair. If I cancel my cleaner I still pay her. If she cancels then I don't pay her.
I value my cleaner enormously...and she has a reasonable expectation that she will get my £50 a week and budgets accordingly. Not fair on her if she is left short because of me.
However what I think is wrong is that you clearly have time to "deep clean" and yet don't always do it...and only made the effort to make your life easier. That attitude isn't great.

You were a bit pushy to be honest in a not attractive way
Typical, call a woman pushy and unattractive for standing up for some low paid work. Your not unattractive for trying to get a good employment deal in a fragile gig economy, ffs.
I think there's been a few misunderstandings, and its bloody rude to cancel on a cleaner like this lady has done.
I think you need to find a new client. Your 2 years of service is not of value to her, so best be moving on if you aren't happy with the new arrangement.

How much advanced notice do you require for her to cancel per your terms?

She sounds awful.

I really didn't get that at all.

I'm self-employed. If I don't work, I don't get paid. Most self-employed people will have a time that you can cancel by without penalty. I think people who pay their cleaners while they are away on holiday and don't need them to come in are being very generous.

I think the OP assumed a lot. The client didn't ask her to do extra cleaning and hadn't requested her to do a final clean. The OP should have discussed this with her sooner.

I don't know OP, you were a bit pushy but I think as you're good and reliable she should have had you in or cancelled and paid you anyway as you were available to work. If I cancel my cleaner I pay her but I rarely do cancel her as even if we're away she comes anyway. If she cancels I don't pay her. This is pretty standard. Does she know you did all the extra bits? I think perhaps find a new job now she's moving.

I'm really surprised by the comments on here. I would pay if I asked my cleaner not to come in one week. If she cancelled I wouldn't but if I do it only seems fair to me.

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I would also now start looking for somewhere else to do those 3 hours you do for her, and she can find someone else to do 2 hours.

She could have paid you for that week, given the short notice, but the extra deep cleaning you've been doing is irrelevant as you were clearly able to do it within the hours she paid you for.
Two hours a week for one lady sounds enough. If the house is big most of the rooms are probably unused.

I haven’t never asked my regular cleaners to do the final clean because it then would be a PITA to get Hoover/cleaning stuff to new house (London so cleaner doesn’t drive or bring own equipment)- but I always give plenty of notice.
As a former self employed person I would never have asked for payment from clients when they are away or unable to use my services. On the other hand, I have paid my cleaner a couple of times when we didn’t want her to come round- but I don’t think we had to or would have been morally wrong if we hadn’t. It was our choice.
If the lady has given you a few weeks notice I don’t think you can complain, similarly if you don’t want to do two hours instead of three, give notice and find another client. She can find another cleaner.
If this elderly woman was my relative, I would feel pretty uncomfortable with the way you talked her into paying you to not clean. I do understand your reasoning but I still don’t think it was acceptable.

UABVU. You have pressurised this old lady into paying you for not working.

Unless you have a contract to the contrary, she is quite at liberty to employ a cleaning company to do a deep clean after moving. She is quite at liberty to ask you not to come whilst removal staff are packing. She doesn't have to agree for you to work around them.

It is not up to you to decide how many hours you will need to clean her new home. If she wants you for 2 hours and you cannot fit all the cleaning in then you should tell her when you have tried it for a while. Don't decide in advance it needs 3 hours.

You say you have been fitting in areas where you have been deep cleaning in the current house. If you can manage this additional work in the 3 hours at the slightly bigger house, it sounds like 2 hours of normal cleaning in the slightly smaller house is distinctly possible.

YANBU - she had a regular time with you that you had then blocked off for her. She cancelled so she needs to pay, just like with instrumental teachers.

YANBU - I think it's extremely rude to expect you to drop a week for no payment. When I moved, I paid extra each week leading up so my cleaner did the deep clean bit by bit (and packed up the clothes, kitchen drawers etc because she's wonderful). DH and I did the last clean-up when everything had gone in the van, but I would have always offered her the overtime if we weren't doing that. Agency is different than self-employed in that way, she can't expect to keep a cleaner if she doesn't pay every week (including your holidays).

As far as dropping to 2 hours, that's fair if that's what she wants; if you'll lack time for ironing or regular room deep cleans then say so but it's her decision, maybe she'll want an extra few hours every quarter to catch up on deep cleaning.

My take on these situations is that if YOU can't go to clean then you don't get paid. If THEY tell you you're not required that week because of X then they pay you regardless. So I think you were in the right. I'd explore this future reduction in hours with her, maybe it's time to move on elsewhere, it sounds like you could be being taken for granted. If that's so, then one day you might get a note telling you your services are no longer required. Everything's fine and dandy as long as the little person plods on and doesn't challenge things, but as soon as you do then look out! Bitter experience

The one thing where you are unreasonable is not looking to see if you can swap the day. We've had a few swaps when we needed, a couple of others when another client needed and are happy for our cleaner to swap our day or time in return. It's about asking rather than demanding, for all parties.

She doesn't owe you anything 🤨 you're a hired service OP not an employee.

If you were cleaning my Nan's house I would not be happy. You sound so grabby. That poor lady.

I think the extra deep cleaning was just part of the job if you managed to do it in the regular time.
I would think it was quite a cushy job normally and now you'll have to work a bit quicker to do everything in the two hours. It still shouldn't be difficult to do. The house isn't going to get filthy in a week from one old lady.

What the fuck have I just read?! You coerced a wealthy old lady to pay you even though you were not cleaning?! I hope she gets rid of you, you’ve been awful! Just because she’s wealthy? You should be ashamed of yourself. 😡

I would have thought that it's usual to pay, even if only a set amount to keep that slot.

Although Op you're sounding more pissed off that you've been doing extra (unasked for) cleaning.

Some posters here have a totally cavalier attitude.

After 2 years you’re effectively her employee, even though you don’t have a contract.

No way would I casually tell my cleaner I wasn’t going to pay her for a week at the last minute, she relies on that money.

All these people who would diddle their workers without notice. Disgraceful.

If I were you I’d start preparing to be told that the cleaning company that does the deep clean will be her regular cleaners after the move. I’d be pretty unimpressed by someone who wouldn’t even try to swap days with another client. It’s not up to you to decide that you’re happy to work round the removal guys, she entirely understandably wants the house deep cleaned after the packing’s been done.

2 weeks notice that you aren't needed is sufficient. You aren't an 'end of tenancy' deep cleaning company so not sure why you just assumed you would be doing it. She never asked you to do the deep cleaning so thats not her fault.
She basically bullied her in to paying you.

Shes paying a company to do the cleaning, but also paying you to do nothing?
YABU, I would tell her you don't require payment after all, and then hope your working relationship can recover.

Then get a contract that states what the cancellation policy is.