Tonight’s Brexit Vote, they don’t want a referendum?

[Thadeus]

Am I the only one surprised to hear that when it was put that there could be a second referendum the shouts of no overwhelmingly outweighed the yes’?

TonightJosephine

But exactly that is trotted out every time the question is asked.

You say we have a say over the direction that the EU goes in but that's as 1 of 27. We might absolutely disagree yet it's passed anyway so we can have voice our opinion but that is no guarantee that we'll get the outcome that we want.

The points that you posted above - what do they mean for the UK? What changes will we need to make in order to hit them? Employment for example. Are they targets for each individual country or for the EU as a whole? Spain eg has very high unemployment so is that up to them to achieve these targets for themselves or do other countries have to assist? If they assist, then how?

If a second referendum is never an acceptable option, then democracy is dead.

If we don't leave despite voting out does that mean we kick Scotland out of the UK because they chose to stay so we need to boot them out.

Why not let NI join that particular party as well, since NI voted against Brexit?

Neoshaz I agree.

Jocelyn it's technically second vote on this issue .

First back in 70s.

Project tried for 40 years. Another vote given. The answer was out.

I would back another vote in 4o + year's.

Well we are in a situation that the government has rejected a no deal, the default however is a No Deal so it will be interesting to see if the eu deny an extension.

The EU could comfortably gamble that the UK will fold or at the very least extract a high price for an extension. But that is going to fuel the anti EU rhetoric across Europe.

It's an interesting timeline for future historian's

It would be in eu's interest to allow an extension.

You say we have a say over the direction that the EU goes in but that's as 1 of 27. We might absolutely disagree yet it's passed anyway so we can have voice our opinion but that is no guarantee that we'll get the outcome that we want.

It's not true in any meaningful sense that we were one of 27 (28 actually). We were one of three or four that actually ran the show.

If course you can never guarantee that you'll get what you want 100% of the time, but since we did in fact get what we wanted about 98% of the time I really don't think it is worth throwing our toys out of the pram and losing all the many benefits for the sake of that last 2%.

Peoplr need to fucking grow up and face the reality of how developed nations actually function in a globalised economy in the 21st century.

Very interesting timeline.

I wonder what will be said looking back ...

Yet another monolithic bloc dictating what's best to individual nations... leading to a rise of hatred and

I find it interesting that someone praising TM, who is happy to ask Westminster to vote on essentially the same thing time and time again, thinks its against our political system to ask the electorate twice.

It will be thrice

GottenGottenGotten

What’s the odds on TM going for MV3?

Oh the irony.

TonightJosephine

You still haven't explained how those aims might affect the UK?

The employment one for example. Is that a UK target? A whole EU target? Do we have to assist other countries to achieve the target?

A judge found that the referendum result would have been illegal, if it had been binding. The PM's own lawyer admitted the result was compromised. There was dodgy Russian money and overspending not to mention a huge heap of actual lies.

I think both main parties have some questionable funding or campaigning practices they want to hide which is why more fuss has not been made.

I can't fathom why people think it's somehow honouring democracy to recognise an advisory vote in these circumstances when the majority was also only 4%.

Have another referendum to sort out this mess then never have another referendum again.

The first referendum was 67% remain, 32% Leave. Considering the large majority for Remain, it held for 40 years.

The second referendum was 48% remain, 51% Leave. Considering the slim majority for Leave, 3 years is getting past is sell-by date.

If a second EU referendum is not acceptable because of fears of rioting by Leave voters, then democracy in the UK is dead.

The referendum broke the campaigning rules about honesty and transparency on numerous counts, so acting in it without investigation of illegal undue Influence is undemocratic anyway.

But I guess the Brexiteers can't count on fixing the result twice - and certainly have nothing to gain by another referendum.

Houston

How many remain voters were influenced by EU propaganda?

How many actually know anything about it!

Well I guess we could get stuck in a limbo of referendums endlessly...

I don't know (I'm walking along the street typing on my phone) and to be honest I don't really care.

Do you really see that as a major issue that is worth spending all this money, causing an unhealable divide between leavers and remainers and killing off the UK's car industry and a good chunk of its financial services industry?

If you do then I'm afraid I think your priorities are completely out of whack.

I want to know whether supplies of my father's life saving medication are going to be assured in the event of no deal. I want to know when the Eurostar is going to be functioning properly again. I want to know when British people who live in one member state and work in another are going to have their residence and employment position clarified. I want to know when it's OK to stop worrying that my parents haven't stockpiled anything because they don't normally think beyond the next meal.

I'm afraid I don't really care about your question because I think there are about eight million other unanswered questions about Brexit and the EU which are far more important. Sorry.

And I didn't vote conservative in the last election so I'd like it re run because it's not fair.

It's not true in any meaningful sense that we were one of 27 (28 actually). We were one of three or four that actually ran the show.

This is re framing the initial argument that was ridiculed by remainers. It was the leavers argument that we had much more sway with regards to the EU project and the remainers positioning the discussion around little Englanders thinking they are more important than what they are, almost daily mail readers for thinking we were not a backwater who had to succumb to an overarching state whilst complain that the UK is too london centric.

If course you can never guarantee that you'll get what you want 100% of the time, but since we did in fact get what we wanted about 98% of the time I really don't think it is worth throwing our toys out of the pram and losing all the many benefits for the sake of that last 2%

If some people could apply that to domestic politics it would be justifiable. As an example, good luck banning zero hour contracts via the EU.

TonightJosephine

And that is the problem. No one actually seems to know what the EU is or how it works. Yet dare to express misgivings about it and you are called thick and uneducated. Many people who voted remain actually don't understand what they voted for either.

All well and good to shrug your shoulders but what if the next step is an EU army? Given that some EU countries still have national service is that on the cards? If not, how do you know?

Spain has youth unemployment of what 40%? If those targets that you quoted also apply to them, and we are expected to assist, then that is a lot of help we will have to give.

These details matter. If no one has a grown up discussion about this, then this is the result. Why are these details so hard to find? The obvious reason is that there are things they would rather that we didn't know.

Weetabix those are EU national targets, each individual country decides itself how it wants to achieve that via national legislation designed and voted on by national parliaments. Individual member states are not obligated to sort these issues out for other states. And some member states fall short of the targets, so for instance the 2020 employment targets have only been reached in 2018 by 9 countries, with another 16 countries only 5% below target, and the rest well below target and probably won't get there. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/EmploymentratessandEuropee2020nationalltargets#Steadyincreaseeandnewwrecordoffhighemploymentt_rate

And I didn't vote conservative in the last election so I'd like it re run because it's not fair.

Ah,but the conservatives only won via 37.5% of the population so you did win because in a vague way you can insinuate that those that didn't vote were all agreeing with your political stance.

Its the statistical analysis born out of 143 character twitter posts.

Have another referendum with all the options on it and do alternative vote. That way the public can choose a particular deal.

Some people may prefer remain to certain types of Brexit (eg no deal) whilst others would prefer may’s deal to remain... or whatever.

Our govt is exactly what we deserve. The public think that we can ask for everything and expect the EU to give it to us. Some think we can push brinkmanship further. They may be right - EU may cave, but it’s potentially catastrophic if they don’t (and it will definitely be more catastrophic for UK than EU because a larger percentage of our trade is with them than vice versa). I don’t think unrest at this type of referendum will be too bad because it is definitely different to the first one and offers more choice. You have to weigh it against unrest if the economy crashes (which it might or might not do after Brexit).