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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Tonight’s Brexit Vote, they don’t want a referendum?

272 replies

Thadeus · 12/03/2019 19:44

Am I the only one surprised to hear that when it was put that there could be a second referendum the shouts of no overwhelmingly outweighed the yes’?

OP posts:
ClaryFray · 13/03/2019 17:55

Woah chaps, we need another general election because not everyone agreed to have this person in power...

See? The issue is this. Are we just going to keep calling votes on everything?

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 13/03/2019 18:24

in any other circumstances if the leader of a minority government was having this much of a problem getting their legislative agenda passed we’d have had another general election long before now.

Somehow May has managed to survive her own party trying to oust her as leader, a vote of no confidence called by the opposition, her coalition party only supporting her when they feel like it, bits of her own party trying to scupper other bills just to prove that they can and her government being found in contempt of parliament.

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 13/03/2019 18:33

Are we just going to keep calling votes on everything?

Well, Brexiteers spent forty years bitching about the result of the 1975 vote until they got their way, so...

time4chocolate · 13/03/2019 18:38

Well, Brexiteers spent forty years bitching about the result of the 1975 vote until they got their way, so...

So.....2056 for the next one then - sounds reasonable to me.

TonightJosephine · 13/03/2019 19:09

That was 40 years during which things were mostly doing quite well. We won't survive 40 years of Brexiters' fuck ups.

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 19:12

Should we have another referendum could someone please explain what " remain" looks like? (that's to all the superiorly educated remainers on here).

TonightJosephine · 13/03/2019 19:13

Why, did you have your eyes shut until 2016? It looks like what we had before all this nonsense.

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 19:15

Why, did you have your eyes shut until 2016? It looks like what we had before all this nonsense.

Does it? What effect will the German banks have? What schedule of works do the EU have proposed?

TriciaH87 · 13/03/2019 19:18

If we don't leave despite voting out does that mean we kick Scotland out of the UK because they chose to stay so we need to boot them out.

TriciaH87 · 13/03/2019 19:19

After all it wasn't legally binding either but we followed through because it suited MP's

MissionItsPossible · 13/03/2019 19:22

No Deal ever "rejected" by a margin of 4 (still possible as it's the default outcome). I knew it wouldn't be rejected with the landslide that people were predicting.

TalkinPaece · 13/03/2019 19:27

But No deal is still the default
so its all window dressing

MissionItsPossible · 13/03/2019 19:31

Exactly. A political ploy.

TonightJosephine · 13/03/2019 19:36

What effect will the German banks have? What schedule of works do the EU have proposed?

Can you frame your question more precisely so I can understand exactly what you are asking?

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 19:45

I asked what "remain" looks like and you said the same as it has since 2016.

So that assumes nothing changes but remains as it is now.

I'm asking what changes to the EU are looming on the horizon ie if we were to vote "remain" what are we voting for?

2 examples - the merger involving Deutsche bank - what impact might that have on the EU?

And what plans do the EU have going forward? So what does " remain" mean?

Unfinishedkitchen · 13/03/2019 19:50

Why the fuck is Farage on the BBC again?!! Why are they so desperate to push his views on us? Fuck him.

Xiaoxiong · 13/03/2019 19:56

Weetabix do you mean the DB/Commerzbank merger? I don't understand why you think that would affect us more if we remained or left. That merger will affect the world financial system and put jobs around the world at risk, just like when Lloyds TSB acquired HBOS or Lehmans failed. Yes it will require approval from the European financial regulators but that's absolutely normal for competition and capital reserve purposes and wouldn't affect the institutions of the EU and our rights and obligations if we remained. The EU isn't bailing DB or Commerzbank our the way our government bailed out the banks in the financial crisis.

ethelfleda · 13/03/2019 19:56

Are we just going to keep calling votes on everything?

No - just once more.

Xiaoxiong · 13/03/2019 20:00

Also if you want to know what is planned, we had the referendum in the middle of the Europe 2020 10-year strategic plan. So those goals are applicable now, until the next 10 year plan is produced for 2021 onwards. If we want a say in that we need to remain members. But it's a good bet that the next 10 year goals will be similar to the current goals, namely:

▪	To raise the <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_rate" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">employment rate</a> of the population aged 20–64 from the current 69% to at least 75%.

▪	To achieve the target of investing 3% of <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">GDP</a> in <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%26D" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">R&D</a> in particular by improving the conditions for R&D investment by the private sector, and develop a new indicator to track innovation.

▪	To reduce <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">greenhouse gas emissions</a> by at least 20% compared to 1990 levels or by 30% if the conditions are right, increase the share of renewable energy in final <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_consumption" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">energy consumption</a> to 20%, and achieve a 20% increase in <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_energy_use" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">energy efficiency</a> - <a class="break-all" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_climate_and_energy_package" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">20-20-20 target</a>.

▪	To reduce the share of early school leavers to 10% from the current 15% and increase the share of the population aged 30–34 having completed tertiary from 31% to at least 40%.

▪	To reduce the number of Europeans living below national poverty lines by 25%, lifting 20 million people out of poverty.
Xiaoxiong · 13/03/2019 20:03

Oh it looks like they've just published the 2030 energy and sustainability goals:

•	At least 40% cuts in <strong>greenhouse gas emissions</strong> (from 1990 levels)
•	At least 32% share for <strong>renewable energy</strong>
•	At least 32.5% improvement in <strong>energy efficiency</strong>
Xiaoxiong · 13/03/2019 20:06

So I guess you can guarantee one thing that remaining will look like - actually taking action on climate change and forcing all of the EU countries to comply with those targets, even if they don't feel like it or it's not considered a domestic priority. Since we are all affected by climate change and share the same atmosphere I'm quite keen that these targets are enforced, and happy that the 2020 targets were doubled in ambition for 2030.

Weetabixandshreddies · 13/03/2019 20:08

So, yes the Deutsche bank merger has no impact on the financial stability of other countries in Europe?

And the 10 year goals - how are they implemented? What would we need to do to achieve them? What impacts would they have on the UK?

Raising employment rates eg. Is that across Europe or in the UK?

Lifting Europeans out of poverty - how? Who does what? Do all countries contribute equally?

Justanotherlurker · 13/03/2019 20:21

Why the fuck is Farage on the BBC again?!! Why are they so desperate to push his views on us?

Because silencing opinions is akin to fascism, the narrative is that leave voters have been misled, this is more attacking the man rather than the ball, which you have failed to do.

As for discussions about Deutsche bank, people really have no history of the toxic nature of Deutsche bank and the trouble they are still in since 2008, to be using it one way or another in regards to brexit shows the ideological lines has been skewed by the referendum.

It's going to be funny watching some people do a complete 180 when promoting labour in the next GE when the same GDP/Banking warnings are issued.

TonightJosephine · 13/03/2019 20:28

Weetabix no one is suggesting that the EU would remain fixed in time for ever and ever. (And if they were you would be complaining about that too because can't we see that reforms are desperately needed?)

The point is that the EU is a rules based organisation and as a member of that organisation we played a key role in making those rules. The EU is not some foreign bogeyman making up arbitrary rules that we have to comply with against our will. We are and have been part of it, and had a strong influence over the direction it takes.

Outside the EU we will no longer be able to influence its direction but will remain tied to it and have to comply with its rules anyway if we want to trade with our closest neighbours.

I feel like some people think they're being really clever when they say, "Aha! But what did remain mean? Did you ever think about that? Did you?"

It's not a clever question.

Remain meant continuing to be one of the most powerful members of a rich and successful rules based organisation. Leave means chaos, economic misery and becoming a rule taker.

neoshaz · 13/03/2019 20:37

Thank goodness for TM. One of the few MPs with a strong moral compass who is willing to put her neck on the line to support our democratic process.

I think the only intellectually inferior people are those who think that a second referendum is an acceptable option. It's a completely entitled view that undermines our political system.