Tonight’s Brexit Vote, they don’t want a referendum?

[Thadeus]

Am I the only one surprised to hear that when it was put that there could be a second referendum the shouts of no overwhelmingly outweighed the yes’?

The keyword here is 'prospective', besides, the headlines are based on a handful of 'potential', attention grabbing examples and not representative of goods in general.

Looking forward to the DUP’s reaction to the proposed special treatment for NI, given their constant rhetoric about NI not being treated differently to rUK.

The fact is that the advisory referendum took place amidst a maelstrom of misinformation, lies and electoral fraud. Leave lied, Remain didn’t do anywhere near enough.

Even now there is no clarity on what leaving looks like. People don’t like the deal on offer or the prospect of no deal. Politicians dont like either and still, no one can say this is what will happen with x or y.

A second referendum won’t change anything apart from drawing out the unrest.

Perhaps if it had been made very very clear during the campaigns that the referendum was advisory only, then no one would feel betrayed when the result is/isn't honoured.

I'm nit very interested in another vote as I really don't think we can spare the cash.

I am still angry with Cameron's idiocy in getting us into this in the firstlace, his thoroughly dishonest and ignoble behaviour throughout, and his cowardice. Ignorant arrogance. He was the worst sort of politician.

There is an awful lot of plain straightforward nasty bigotry on display on this thread like most of the Brexit threads.

The referendum was legally advisory, but this was in the leaflet, paid for out of our taxes and sent to all of us -

"This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide."

So remind me again, who are the liars and the thick people who expected the result to be implemented?

It doesn't matter what was in the leaflet. They promised to deliver something which has turned out to be undeliverable.

The fact that they shouldn't have promised it if it was undeliverable doesn't make it any more deliverable.

I would like to see a few more leave voters facing up to the reality of this situation.

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.

Yes that was misleading. The legals said otherwise.

I’m not sure what point you’re making.

There's no point in leavers and remainers berating each other. Personally, I blame the politicians who got us into this mess in the first place, lied with truly horrifying abandon and then half of them fucked off when things got tricky, as they were always going to.

Leaving the EU was always going to have to be as soft as a whisper thanks to NI and the GFA. Always. And a butter-soft Brexit would have gone some way to bringing the 48% on board, too. As a committed remainer, I could have lived with a CU+SM-type deal, although I wouldn't be jumping for joy. But it would mean that some semblance of normality would have prevailed. And also be pretty pointless. But then that's Brexit in a nutshell, isn't it?

All this no-deal crap scares the pants off me. I'm pretty damn sure not a single leaver leader talked about that in the referendum run-up, so nobody voted for that, whatever is being bandied about now. It's plain to me that all this is just political party infighting and extremism, stoked by personal monetary gains, privileges and potential Russian interference designed to weaken international ties. The referendum, had it been binding, would have been invalidated. But not a single politician is talking about that.

It's all very strange. I feel like I'm watching my country implode under the weight of its own hubris.

TM should just cancel the bastard until we've worked out a positive plan, rather than a negative 'we know what we don't want but not what we do want' plan.

I’ve passed exams at post first degree level on the EU. Worked closely within the EU legal framework. Im very highly educated. Voted out.

If you are telling the truth about being educated then I bet you are one of those selfish people with the option to leave the UK so you don't have to live with the consequences of Brexit if you don't want to. Dual nationality by any chance or the option to get it?

I would like to see a few more leave voters facing up to the reality of this situation.

No, what you would like is for leave voters to come out and say "We've all made a terrible mistake and should have listened to you oh-so-intellectually-superior-remainers, we only voted to Leave because we hate foreigners, we're such morons, sorry for ruining the country"

...Is that about right?

Brexit is perfectly deliverable, it's just that the self-interested politicians are either inept, only looking after their own interests or out to sabotage the opposition so the best possible version of Brexit is not their first priority.

I'm pretty damn sure not a single leaver leader talked about that in the referendum run-up

No, they didn’t. The official Leave.eu leaflet specified that a deal would be done with the EU.

Words in a leaflet don’t trump the law, and stating objective facts is not bigotry.
Parliament is not obliged to follow the advisory referendum result, and given that MP’s are elected to act in the best interests of their constituents, I live in hope they’ll start doing that at some point.

I’m pretty sure Cameron’s arrogance allowed for that statement because he thought Remain would win and shut down Farage et al for good. His hubris led to our current situation.

What if the result of a second referendum is the same (and I think confidence in a Remain victory the second time around could be mis-placed)? What happens then?

This could be solved by making it a legally binding referendum, with the question being do you want to leave with the deal on offer or remain. If the vote is to leave then parliament is obliged to implement the result and pass May's deal (which solves the current parliamentary deadlock) and if the result is to remain then Article 50 is revoked.

Brexit is perfectly deliverable, it's just that the self-interested politicians are either inept, only looking after their own interests or out to sabotage the opposition so the best possible version of Brexit is not their first priority.

If it is perfectly deliverable, can you explain how? What is the solution to the border with Ireland for example?

MadeleineMaxwell well said!

If we did have a second referendum then not only should the vote be legally binding, it should be compulsory for everyone eligible to vote. After they’ve sat and read a comprehensive, fact-checked summary in the voting hall so no-one can say they didn’t know what they were voting for.

Of course it won’t happen, unrest in the U.K. is beneficial to some people.

I think remainers would do well to stop calling leavers uneducated and thick. I know intelligent people, not so intelligent people and thick as shit people who have voted leave. I know intelligent people, not so intelligent people and thick as shit people who have voted remain. I know families where some have voted one way some the other. People who call anyone uneducated and thick because they voted differently to them are fucking rude sanctimonious twats.

Brexit is perfectly deliverable, it's just that the self-interested politicians are either inept, only looking after their own interests or out to sabotage the opposition so the best possible version of Brexit is not their first priority.

What makes you think a good deal ever possible? Why do you think the EU would ever give us one when it means more countries will leave? It was obvious that we were never going to get a good deal if we left the EU is so frustrating that many leave voters won't accept that.

What is the solution to the border with Ireland for example?

Well in the case of No Deal the UK government makes a special case for trade between Ireland and NI to be tariff free. Which doesn’t apply to rUK.

Sooo looking forward to Arlene’s response to this.

I think remainers would do well to stop calling leavers uneducated or thick

I think leave voters do well to convince us that you're not. It doesn't really matter what we say, we will still think it.

I think remainers would do well to stop calling leavers uneducated and thick... People who call anyone uneducated and thick because they voted differently to them are fucking rude sanctimonious twats.

I do agree it's not a very nice tactic, but the amount that leavers bring this up makes me think that it is because they know there's some truth to it. The evidence is that voting leave was associated with lower educational attainment. And it is undeniable that significant components of the Leave campaign was based on lies and myths, which those less able to discern facts from lies were more likely to accept as true.

But it isnt leavers that bring it up is it. Remainers are the ones who are saying leavers are thick (as demonstrated on this thread). It is an extremely unpleasant trait and regardless of which way people vote it is disgusting to say you are not intelligent enough to vote the right way.

If you are an ordinary person still supporting leave knowing what we now know about the negative consequences what conclusion should one make about their decision making skills?

Would it be wise for a car worker to still support leave?
A farmer facing no deal?

I’m a remainer and don’t think leavers are thick. Generalisations about swathes of the population rarely end well for any of us.

Most of family voted leave and whilst some would vote differently now, they all had different reasons for voting leave. Granted, most of those were influenced by Farage (who I think is power hungry rather than racist) and the media.

You're right that Remainers do bring it up, (although Leavers often bring it up pre-emptively) but as you know, it comes up, and it hurts, because there is some truth to it.

I think there are very few people who are not intelligent enough to vote the right way, but I think there are quite a few who are not educated enough to sift and weigh different sources, or since school, are perhaps out of the habit of it.

I think there are very few people who are not intelligent enough to vote the right way, but I think there are quite a few who are not educated enough to sift and weigh different sources, or since school, are perhaps out of the habit of it.

How to contradict yourself in one paragraph.