Tonight’s Brexit Vote, they don’t want a referendum?

[Thadeus]

Am I the only one surprised to hear that when it was put that there could be a second referendum the shouts of no overwhelmingly outweighed the yes’?

Ok so we have another referendum. Remain wins. So we have another one in a few years time (because that's your argument, that democracy is every few years to check everyone is still happy).

That is what would happen. We would have a general election in 2021 or so. If there was enough discontent, people could vote for UKIP or whoever

I'm pretty sure the EU weren't prepared to start discussing a deal until article 50 was triggered.

I'm pretty sure the EU weren't prepared to start discussing a deal until article 50 was triggered

It’s more about the UK having clarity on what they were looking for and parliamentary support for that before triggering article 50.

It’s genuinely staggering that they didn’t do that.

Oh and they categorically should have had preliminary discussions with the ROI government about the border issue prior to triggering.

Probably the Spanish government too.

May boxed herself into a corner with her red lines and is now refusing to row back.

How ridiculous. So you're suggesting we just have a referendum on being in the EU every 3-4 years, just to check everyone is still happy with the latest result

Why not? I mean, if its OK for Theresa May to keep asking pretty much the same question of the elected MPs every few weeks...

Why on Earth should brexiteers be leading this, oppen? Apart from the fact that David Davies was lead negotiator for the first 18 months or so.

The whole shit show is because this could only ever be delivered as a soft Brexit because of a) the Northern Irish border and b) the fact that Parliament has to agree the deal and many MPs represent remain constituencies and would never vote through a hard Brexit.

What May did wrong was try to devise a Tory Brexit to try to save her own bloody party rather than organising a cross party committee to plan and negotiate Brexit.

There was NO mandate for a no deal Brexit. There was NO mandate for the ERG Brexit or the DUP Brexit or any other of the parties which have had a disproportionate influence on this process.
17 million may have voted out but where is your evidence that all 17 million wanted a hard Brexit with no customs union and fuck the Good Friday agreement? Plus the 16 odd million of us who voted remain, do we get no consideration at all, is it not more likely that a soft Brexit with customs union as a compromise is the ONLY way to move forward which both respects the leave vote, acknowledges the pain of the remain voters, and doesn't screw up the peace in Northern Ireland?

Thinking that a Tory Brexit and "red lines" were ever going to be voted through by a broad political church House of Commons was devastatingly foolish. It doesn't satisfy rabid brexiteers and it doesn't satisfy remainers either.

Fwiw I am a remainer. I would accept a soft Brexit which preserves the Good Friday agreement. I'm not happy about it, but I accept that the referendum took place and that leaving was the decision. I am devastated at the thought that people think a no deal Brexit is a good idea and I am devastated at what this is doing to my country.

And I do NOT want another referendum. Too many people been watching Rees Mogg on Facebook and actually believe the twat.

Having only brexiteers negotiate Brexit is like having only LGBT charities consulted on the GRA, and we know how brilliantly that worked out.

You MUST consult BOTH sides, or what you get is far too partisan and doesn't even acknowledge the position of the other party.

The UK has never really known what it has wanted (realistically) but just knew what it didn’t want.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

You can not negotiate from this position. Your opponents cannot deal with you in this position.

It’s like negotiating with a toddler. Genuinely.

400,000 ex pats UK migrants in Benidorm. Stupid buggers want us out. Whilst living in Spain.

Fixed it.

I have an issue in that we elect MPs to represent us. They should vote in parliament in accordance with how the majority of their constituents voted. They should not vote in parliament based on their own view as this gives their voice a disproportionate amount of power.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Parlianentary democracy in the UK. MPs are representatives, not delegates. Their duty is to act in the best interests of the country, not to be slaves to the opinions of their constituents.

That’s a bit harsh on toddlers.

At least the EU read the books on parenting toddlers otherwise we could’ve been in a worse position than the one we’re in now.

I don't want another referendum. We had one, the country voted and the result was to leave the EU.

However if there is another referendum, I shall vote the same as I did last time, to remain.

I don't really understand why there are calls for another referendum, we can't just keep going until we get the result we want (speaking as a remainer).

Also don't understand why there is a call for another general election.

Can't we just get on with the task in hand, leaving the EU?

I think a referendum asking either No Deal or Revoke is the best option. No one could argue that that would not be democratic because "the people have already spoken" or whatever, because it would allow those who voted Leave in 2016 to give a more informed opinion.

Can't we just get on with the task in hand, leaving the EU?

Except that parliament seems unable to ‘get on’ with this.

They’ve made no progress. All they’re doing is saying no to deals on the table. They’ll almost certainly rule out a no deal tonight.

In order to leave the EU we have to commit to something. The clock is ticking.

I think there are huge issues with going back to the electorate, but parliament don’t look like they can do this, so what choice is there?

Anyone just heard the prospective tarriffs announced? Thanks leavers. Hope you've been saving hard. And that you'll still have a job. Enjoy your victory.

Oh here we go again, all leave voters are uneducated and stupid.

I don't think all Brexit voters are stupid, but I do think a subset of them, who like the idea of Brexit in a childish, tabloid, "stop telling us what to do Brussels and go home foreigners" kind of way, tipped the balance and are the reason Leave won. And that generally those are the same people who believed the Leave lies and oversimplifications and really think that all we need is to tear off the yoke and kick out the immigrants and it will all be great.

You see them all the time on vox pops, "I voted to leave because I have Slovenians living next door to me and I don't like them" "I voted to leave because why should Brussels tell us what to do, we want freedom" "I voted to leave because all that money could go to the NHS". Absolutely no idea what the EU is, how it works financially or that leaving will have massive negative impacts that could well affect them adversely. Absolutely no understanding of immigration, why it's necessary and will continue to happen anyway, and that leaving means they now can't go and work in Europe when they lose their job.

I think there are huge issues with going back to the electorate, but parliament don’t look like they can do this, so what choice is there?

But if they push this back to the electorate it will be with the hope of a Remain victory (thus letting the useless twats in parliament, who couldn't negotiate and agree on a decent deal, off the hook).

What if the result of a second referendum is the same (and I think confidence in a Remain victory the second time around could be mis-placed)? What happens then?

I'm not saying you're wrong in your comment (I quite agree), I'm not even say that I have a solution, I just wonder if anything is to be gained by letting this go back to a vote.

Anyone just heard the prospective tarriffs announced? Thanks leavers.

The keyword here is 'prospective', besides, the headlines are based on a handful of 'potential', attention grabbing examples and not representative of goods in general.

I think a lot of people wont bother to vote in a new referendum. The sad fact is the country voted and our government representatives have failed completely to get on with it and sort it out.

The sad fact is the country voted and our government representatives have failed completely to get on with it and sort it out.

But the sad fact is also that what was promised was not deliverable. To me, it's as if we voted to win the World Cup, and despite losing 3-0 in the quarter files demanding that the Managers just goes back to get on with it. We voted to win the World Cup.

I just wonder if anything is to be gained by letting this go back to a vote.

If they do it, they have to clarify the terms of leave.

Personally I don’t want to see a no deal option on that ballot paper, but it might have to be there. So some variation of Remain, Leave with a clearly articulated deal, or Leave with no deal. Whichever wins is committed to, no more discussion.

I understand the problems with splitting the Leave vote like this, the details would have to be worked out. It might be that we can only have 2 options on the ballot. Or it might be that we have some kind of PR system.

We also need to address the point that Mays deal is the only deal we have that’s been agreed by the EU. I know the commons keep voting it down, but in the absence of another deal it may be prudent to put it to the population, who may well vote for it if the alternative is no deal or remain.