Tonight’s Brexit Vote, they don’t want a referendum?

[Thadeus]

Am I the only one surprised to hear that when it was put that there could be a second referendum the shouts of no overwhelmingly outweighed the yes’?

Why are politicians worried about leavers getting uppity on the streets but don't worry that those who voted remain will get uppity.

We hear time and time again that if a close decision is not honoured, despite it contravening UK election law then democracy will have been failed. But democracy has been failed by allowing a vote stand that has been demonstrably shown to have contravened the democratic rule set out in UK election law. If it had been an election there would have been outcry at how undemocratic it was - remember the hand wringing when in Bradford less than 200 votes had been influenced by outside groups. There was a by election.

Now we are in a situation where the winning side have admitted that they lied ( lying in an election is illegal) and yet our politicians are worried that they are being un democratic.

If it is the "will of the people" then let them have a say where the reality of what they are voting for is known. I honestly do not think that people would have voted the way they did if they knew that farm subsidies would be cut, fishing rights were outside the control of either the UK or EU because the rights had been sold by some of the larger UK fishing operations, the EU workers being made to feel unwelcome because the economic pain people were feeling was due to austerity not people taking minimum wage or difficult to fill jobs, unaffordable housing created by the deregulation of lending in the mid 80s, not lack of supply caused by immigration.

The things that have caused us pain are not as a result of EU regulation but the actions of our own government. It is shameful that we have been manipulated by the media to believe something that is not true.

Icerebel Remain is the status quo, it shouldn't need explaining. How the hell can you say that? What about the removal of the veto? The move to QMV? That changes are passed as being non legislative and thus no referral to member states is deemed necessary, but the fonctionnaires can decide this?

Have you looked at the programme of works for the coming years? The changes to changes to inheritance laws, non-vetoable foreign policy compliance and enforced meshing into the EU army.

Please tell me, where in all of that, is the staus quo?

No they are not, but then they can't expect to be re-elected either when they have blatantly and wilfully disregarded what a majority of those who bothered to vote, voted for.

I’d rather have MPs that voted for what they genuinely believed was best for the country than MPs that caved in to populist opinions in the hope of not being sacked at the next GE.

What is wrong with closer union. It has prevented another European war for 73 years. We have had economic growth for most of those 73 years that has out stripped the rest of the world.

What is it that is wrong with working together to improve the economic well being of all citizens? The people who lose from the EU are those who have tax to hide or what to cut corners to the detriment of the rest of us.

I stand shoulder to shoulder with the vulnerable in the EU, not the have staking advantage of those who are unable to compete on a level playing field. The EU parliament have shown they do too- that is the "red tape" - workers rights, maternity leave, environmental protections, universal tax regulation to prevent the likes of Google ducking their payments..... there is nothing there that causes me concern. If it means the vulnerable in society and workers get the fair split on their labour I am all for it.

In a world where Russia and China will increasingly call the shots and the US becomes more protectionist and sidelined, I’m okay with staying close to France and Germany, funny enough.

Did the Leavers really think this through. Who will we ally ourselves with when we’re through with the EU? Trump? Or who else?

This reminds me of a parent telling their 5 year old that if they aren't happy at home doing what they are told then they can leave (For a joke) The 5 year old packs their wee bag and goes for the front door. The parent is laughing but when the kid gets our the door but the parent feels they can't shout them back as they have to stick to their guns.
Meanwhile the child is now 3 miles up the road with their wee bag and the parent is asking themselves what the fuck they have done.

Don't know why but that thought always comes in my head.
I'm hoping for another referendum.

“I think the worry is that many people who voted for Brexit would feel betrayed, and these feelings could tip into something serious; even civil unrest perhaps.”

I am a remainer and may well take to the streets if we leave.

We have not been governed by a government (or parliament) with the least bit of care for their democratic responsibility.

Politicians in all sides have shown incompetence, cynical game playing and pathetic lack of leadership.

We should cancel Brexit.

I

😂 at @Boobiliboobiliboo in the corner there with her probable half an 'O level' ...

Best laugh I've had in weeks 👍

Why are politicians worried about leavers getting uppity on the streets but don't worry that those who voted remain will get uppity.

The scum of the UK voted for Brexit. There are genuine fears than there would be riots if there was a second referendum.

A couple of weeks and it will all sort itself out. We just need to keep the MPs busy so they dont feel put out. Freedom here we come.

Disappointed the vote was lost. I want it to be over now. All the sides are never going to agree. Democracy says we should have some version of Brexit. That deal would have done. Labour saying we should negotiate whilst refusing to rule out no deal are being naive. Faffing around for months/ years with referendum no 2 is wasting time

Sorry your daughters failing though, but stop projecting because of it.

WTF?!

😂 at @Boobiliboobiliboo in the corner there with her probable half an 'O level' ...

I’ve a lot more than that. Including 5 years in Brussels working in the EU.

Best laugh I've had in weeks 👍

I hope you’re still laughing when the house of cards falls down. Hope you aren’t reliant on the NHS (where I now work)!

What happens if we have another referendum and leave vote wins again?

Disappointed the vote was lost

Me too... I wasn’t a big fan of it, and I voted Remain, but at least it would have ensuring the referendum result was honoured and we didn’t inflict the damage a “no deal” would.

What I really don’t get is that the DUP and ERG are so dead set against the backstop and the associated possibility of a hard border that they voted down the deal.... when a no deal Brexit would definitly lead to a hard border!

A couple of weeks and it will all sort itself out.

I’ll come back here a remind you of that! I’m generally an optimist, but you’re living in a fantasy land if you believe that.

How ridiculous. So you're suggesting we just have a referendum on being in the EU every 3-4 years, just to check everyone is still happy with the latest result?

Normally we make these decisions via general election. As long as Ukip has existed, our general elections have included the option to vote for a party that would take us out.

Because MPs know that those saying they want it have no fucking clue what it would entail

This is the key point. As a commentator said, it's clear many people want no deal. It's very unclear if those same people will be happy to live with the consequences of it. In fact some celeb stated that the first people to lose their jobs should be those who voted leave, and the leavers kicked off that this was unfair. So it would seem, no they are not happy to live with the consequences of it.

You just need to look at these threads, last nights defeat clearly means an extension is more likely. But some people are under thr erroneous impression it means no deal is more likely, so the lack of understanding is huge. The fact no deal is the least likely option should be widespread common knowledge, it's the most obvious fact of this whole thing, and yet some folks are still clueless.

And if you Have enough members of the public this confused, then how the hell can uou have a second referendum. They simply can't be asked. Because they don't understand what's happening, and don't understand the impacts of no deal, and have no desire to live by the consequences of it.

Just pointing out that the UK already had employment rights before joining the EU.

Also in cases such as maternity leave and annual leave the UK exceeds the EU statutory requirements.

I think I read that the only issues that would be affected when we leave are EWC's and rights when a firm becomes insolvent, and even then it is unclear by how much would change.

If it all wasn’t so serious it would be laughable. I cannot believe that Cameron was such an idiot that he put such an important decision in the hands of people that voted for boaty mcboatface! I mean we have to have judges to check our voting on strictly! And Cameron thought these people - influenced in all sides by lying, manipulative media - would be able to make a well informed decision one way or the other about something so important?! The man should have been locked up for insanity!

Every time I see leave voters saying they did their research and new what they voted for I think of the day shortly before the referendum when 3 different leave voters tried to convert me
Leaver 1) we have to leave because the EU are forcing us to build on the green belt. Asked for evidence they didn't have any just couldn't think of any other reason why it would happen
Leaver 2) we need to leve because the EU won't let us build enough houses and stopped us building at site x just because its green belt. Site failed because it was 100s of houses on a site with very poor rural B roads for access and would require major infrastructure spend. Sadly they don't know 1 so I couldn't get them to talk to each other
Leaver 3) There are too many muslims and we aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas anymore.
That's 3 who are going to be disappointed come what may.

IceRebel

Remain is the status quo, it shouldn't need explaining. Although I would hope after all this time people are slightly more educated on the EU, and how it affects their life.

It should need explaining, the EU is evolving and moving forward, it isn't standing still.

If another referendum were to be held lets do some something different and have an honest one (on both sides) where the direction that the EU is going to take is also under scrutiny.

It should need explaining, the EU is evolving and moving forward, it isn't standing still.

Upon reflection I have to agree. You're right, it should be explained equally on both sides. Although either side is difficult to fully comprehend, even 2 years on, it definitely needs to be much more than a leave or remain vote.

Also the pessimist in me thinks that even if both sides had detailed explanations, there would still be those who voted the way they do because of their preconceived beliefs. However, I suppose the same could be said for any vote.

many people who voted for Brexit would feel betrayed

Many people who voted for Brexit already feel betrayed. So much of the Brexit campaign was based on lies and obfuscation, they were deceived from the outset.

I only know 6 people who voted for Brexit (well, who admit to voting for Brexit) and 5 of them have changed their minds.

If another referendum were to be held lets do some something different and have an honest one (on both sides) where the direction that the EU is going to take is also under scrutiny

Yes