to not understand why we haven't just sacked off Brexit?

[HeyNannyNanny]

Disclaimer: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know this has been done to death so feel free to ignore if you're sick to the back teeth of Brexit shite. Please don't pelt me with buns and gin bottles for bringing it up. No snapping. No farting.

I don't live in the UK at the moment (though I'm British) so may well have a very skewed perception of the whole thing, but it seems that Brexit is hated by a shocking number of people, has managed to go spectacularly tits up before its even happened and whispers was arguably not wanted by the majority of the population anyway.

Every time I look at the news, there's further arm waving, frothing and photos of Theresa May looking like she's hoping for the ground to swallow her up, stories of the MPs rejecting this, the EU rejecting that, Nigel Farage doing something stupid, Boris Johnson nowhere to be seen etc etc.

But there doesn't seem to be an official suggestion that we just...don't do it.

Have I missed something? Is there some reason why the Government is battling on ahead with such a shit show, when there is a (seemingly) perfectly reasonable and easy alternative right there?

What we actually needed to do was to send someone who was good at wnegotiating there who was committed to the idea of Brexit instead

Erm we did send brexiteers.

We sent Boris, David Davies, Liam Fox and oh wait, they did a half assed job and got us no where.

Now you can argue they weren’t good at negotiation, but who would you suggest?

Especially as Remainers have been through a two year spasm of hysterical anger and have said some truly appalling things to leavers.

I think anybody who thinks this is finished are in for a nasty, nasty shock.

who thinks that and who has said that?

those benefits? any movement on them?

The thing that bothers me (colours to the mast: I am 100% a remainer) is that there has been NO attempt to bring the remainers on side with anything. Given that the split between leave/remain was so small, how on earth can any government expect to attempt to reunite the country? Almost half of us are going to be totally pissed off either way.
I have my current hopes on a Bobby Ewing/Dallas style affair where it's all been a dream, and then perhaps our elected officials (such as they are) could get on with what they are employed to do: running the country.

@BejamNostalgia

“But I think if remainers are deluded enough to think leavers are just going to shrug and forget about it and docilely go back to voting for Labour and the Tories then they are going to find themselves very much mistaken. ”

Translation: give us what we want or we’ll turn into violent extremists.

I always find it interesting that right wingers are constantly looking for their own shite super villain origin story.

PlainVanilla makes a good point. Many Brits living abroad were not allowed to vote because they had left the UK too long ago. But as British nationals we are still deeply affected by Brexit and should have had a voice. Many have plans to return to the UK, and have not bought* the nationality of the EU country they are living in as there is no need while we have FOM.

Same for EU citizens living in the UK. Many have not bought* British nationality although they are allowed to because there was no need with FOM. I think they should also have been allowed to vote.

• I use the word 'bought' referring to nationality as it is a costly process both in time and money. My DH is an EU national, I'm British, and we are buying each other's nationalities now as luckily our two countries agree to share. Our children were born with dual nationality.

Translation: give us what we want or we’ll turn into violent extremists

Pretty much. The same folk surprised by the IRA rearing it's head again, like it's a surprise given the GFA is likely to be shredded by Brexit.

NO attempt to bring the remainers on side with anything

that is ALL on t may - shes been a disgrace. she put jrm and his (super rich) brexiteering cronies first, over healing the country or finding out how we could brexit slowly or at least with minimal damage.

that there has been NO attempt to bring the remainers on side with anything

I know, it’s been absolutely staggering.

It’s all ‘we won, yah boo sucks’, remoaners, citizens of nowhere.

It’s like they’re trying to actively alienate.

It’s like they’re trying to actively alienate

I said this from the start. Does anyone remember Boris' face when the result came in?

He never wanted to Leave, he only used the campaign to elevate his status.

It was all about division from the get go.

I think anybody who thinks this is finished are in for a nasty, nasty shock

Does anyone think this? All the Remainers I know are aware that even if we do remain the bitterness and arguments will continue for decades.

Leave of remain this whole fiasco has been a disaster for the country.

It doesn’t matter what happens, the divisions are here to stay. Thanks Cameron, nice one.

folding NHS, food shortages, an economic crash and enormous job losses.

Why does everyone think the NHS is folding? And why do they think Brexit will alter it's course, folding or not? As for economic crash and job losses, again, how do we know this wouldn't have happened anyway?

But I think if remainers are deluded enough to think leavers are just going to shrug and forget about it and docilely go back to voting for Labour and the Tories then they are going to find themselves very much mistaken.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean you will be campaigning for meaningful electoral reform in the UK.

As for economic crash and job losses, again, how do we know this wouldn't have happened anyway?

How do we know that Brexit-related job losses wouldn't have happened if we had voted to remain?

Er, well...

Why does everyone think the NHS is folding?

Because many senior NHS employees have voiced concerns about lack of availablity of drugs, of treatments and of staff.

Oh and because the Tories are in charge.

As for economic crash and job losses, again, how do we know this wouldn't have happened anyway?

Because large international companies are pulling out of the UK as a direct result of Brexit, because lack of a trade deal means smaller businesses cannot continue to function, and because people far more qualified than you or I have attributed it to Brexit, and forecast price hikes, wage drops, and an inability to safeguard trade without significant cost rises.

I suppose they're all just "project fear" too are they?

It really isn't (or shouldn't be) a difficult concept. We are an island, with diminished industry, heavily reliant on good relationships with our closest neighbours in order to function.

Sticking two fingers up at them and everything they stand for and then expecting them to play nice is about the most profoundly stupid thing I can think of.

The EU owe us nothing, any concessions they have given have been good will, nothing else.

Because many senior NHS employees have voiced concerns about lack of availablity of drugs, of treatments and of staff.

They have voiced concern, that doesn't mean what they say is fact. There are also probably many others thinking we will be fine.

but it seems that Brexit is hated by a shocking number of people,

Only on MN, where thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread is full of bigots slinging insults at their fellow citizens for having a different opinion.

TabbyMumz find them then.

Because the head of a hospice in the Highlands was very clear the other day. Palliative care drugs will be virtually impossible to access post Brexit, and even if they can find an agreement in time, they will still not be available to a significant number of people.

That is the reality. Your chosen reality.

It's not scaremongering, it's stating that certain drugs manufactured only in the EU (midazolam being one of them, a key end of life care drug) will not be freely available and there will definitely be a disturbance in supply.

This comes from the woman who runs the hospice, I'd take her word over yours or mine any day of the week.

What we actually needed to do was to send someone who was good at wnegotiating there who was committed to the idea of Brexit instead

Erm we did send brexiteers.
We sent Boris, David Davies, Liam Fox and oh wait, they did a half assed job and got us no where.
Now you can argue they weren’t good at negotiation, but who would you suggest?

well, exactly.

ooh wouldnt it be lovely to hear from some brexiteers about the advantages we're going to see. that would cheer us up.

It's not having a different opinion and let's not paint leave voters as poor, bullied people because that's utter horseshit.

They're as offensive if not more so.

There is great anger towards the people who caused this. What did you think would happen?

A hospice in the Highlands? Goodness me. She is probably a remainer.

Only on MN, where thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread is full of bigots slinging insults at their fellow citizens for having a different opinion.

Honestly no, I 've not seen remainer insulting leavers: questioning their expectations, yes, swearing at brexit itself, yes. On the other hand I've seen an awful lot of leavers on here threatening extremist violence or support for extreme parties if they don't get their way. And that's not ok. All remainers have asked for so far is another vote in which all remainers and leavers will have an equal voice. That's not wrong or bullying.
Now please stop slinging mud.

Only on MN, where thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread is full of bigots slinging insults at their fellow citizens for having a different opinion

Both people who voted remain and people who voted leave do this

TabbyMumz that's your only response?

Fair enough.

The argument about drug availability seems to be different to people calling the NHS failing. I'm still not clear why people think Brexit has caused this?