to not understand why we haven't just sacked off Brexit?

[HeyNannyNanny]

Disclaimer: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know this has been done to death so feel free to ignore if you're sick to the back teeth of Brexit shite. Please don't pelt me with buns and gin bottles for bringing it up. No snapping. No farting.

I don't live in the UK at the moment (though I'm British) so may well have a very skewed perception of the whole thing, but it seems that Brexit is hated by a shocking number of people, has managed to go spectacularly tits up before its even happened and whispers was arguably not wanted by the majority of the population anyway.

Every time I look at the news, there's further arm waving, frothing and photos of Theresa May looking like she's hoping for the ground to swallow her up, stories of the MPs rejecting this, the EU rejecting that, Nigel Farage doing something stupid, Boris Johnson nowhere to be seen etc etc.

But there doesn't seem to be an official suggestion that we just...don't do it.

Have I missed something? Is there some reason why the Government is battling on ahead with such a shit show, when there is a (seemingly) perfectly reasonable and easy alternative right there?

At least one under-18 voted Leave because I asked how DS would vote if he weren't two months short of 18, after I had spent months reading and agonising over the right thing to do, and changing my mind daily.

The margin in favour of Leave was actually 4% not 2%.

Any serious study of the economics and politics books and articles written in the last 20 years will demonstrate that it is unnecessary to be a "stupid, racist Flat-Earther" to conclude that the EU has not always been right, does not command universal approval, and that some of its management and policies are (at best) appallingly flawed and at worst, corrupt, cynical and determined to manipulate representative democracy out of existence. Why have the Swiss never joined?

He’s already started a new party. He’s been an MEP for 20 years without defeat, his UKIP received the largest amount of votes in the 2014 EU election.

And yet he has never managed to get elected to parliament, despite trying five times in a row, in the constitutencies where he thought he had the best chance of winning.

His new party is the single issue Brexit Party.

To be honest, since 2016 the Tories have pretty much been a single issue Brexit party, and yet they can't actually manage to deliver Brexit, despite devoting almost all their attention to it for the last two and a half years, and despite having more experience in government than any other party. A new party would have no experience in government.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for a shake up of the political system and I would love to see new parties gaining ground (from my point of view it would be great to have a credible pro remain party to vote for), but the system is designed to prevent that from happening, which is why UKIP never really managed to get or hold onto any seats in parliament despite winning a significant number of votes. (The fact that they couldn't run a bath, let alone a country, is pretty irrelevant since that also applies to the people currently in power.)

Keep on kidding yourself. We’re going to Remain and Corbyn is going to be PM and it will all be Utopia.

Corbyn is a Brexiter. And a complete waste of space.

@BejamNostalgia

Thank you for your very kind and well thought out response. I asked the question because I have never heard anyone say anything positive about leaving the EU. I have looked for answers but have not found any. Why is that?

Sorry for being smug and dim, but instead of throwing about insults, why not try to educate and enlighten me? I did ask nicely.

Keep on kidding yourself. We’re going to Remain and Corbyn is going to be PM and it will all be Utopia.

bizarre thing to say.
hey ho.

Helmet...My job, home, and medical supplies will all be fine. You are being sucked up by the panickers of this world.

is it like the milenium bug?

Medical supplies that NHS managers have said aren't safe? What qualifies you to decide they're safe? Nothing.

My home is safe, I own it outright luckily. If I didn't I'd be worried.

DPs job isn't safe, there have already been enormous job losses in Scotland, I don't know about England but it seems Nissan won't be doing what they said they'd be doing.

Dundee alone will have to cope with thousands of job losses in an area that can ill afford it.

You can say your home and job is safe, but you have no idea about food, prices or medical supplies.

My job, home, and medical supplies will all be fine.

another brexiteer who will be untouched by brexit. how wonderful for you tabby.

Farage, the most prominent Brexiteer of all has never offered a coherent plan to leave. He will critise the EU all day but offer no solutions. Should tell you everything you need to know about this mess.

honestly, the only brexiteers left are wealthy/insulated from the shit-storm. (if not, theyre even more 'confused' than they come across on mn)

My job, home, and medical supplies will all be fine.

A lot of other people will probably not be fine though.

is it like the milenium bug?

helmet!!! You bad bunny

A lot of other people will probably not be fine though

More than probably, I'd say it's a certainty.

I hate this "I'm alright Jack, fuck everyone else" attitude that seems to be so popular lately. It's awful.

At this point I wish they'd have the sense to say look, nothing agreed, we had no plan, this is an utter shit show, we're revoking article 50 while we still can before we walk the UK off a cliff.

We will then come up with what Bloody Dave should have done before he ever held a referendum: a proper plan. That plan will then be put back to the electorate. If that plan is approved, we will then revoke and leave. With plan. And spend two years working on getting the UK into a position to cope with leaving instead of spending it doing headless chicken impersonations.

Not not leave, just not leave now, like this because surely no one is that stupid.

most mn brexiteers are a comfortably off bunch - for whom price rises, job loses, declining nhs and state schools and visa problems are nothing...

Well that’s not actually true though is it? All the polling data has shown that the only social groups in society which voted Remain by a majority were the wealthiest AB social classes and that the poorer you were, the more likely you were to vote for Brexit. If you think this is going to be seen as a victory for the working classes anywhere outside your own head, you’re very much mistaken.

No where near A or B. Voted Remain. My mum was even poorer and voted Remain at 86 before she died.
Who are these AB Remain voters?

demographic of voters

Not quite that simple really is it?

It's not a victory for the working classes, it's not a victory for anybody bar the elite who won't notice one way or another!

The explanation that less educated people were more likely to vote leave makes a lot of sense though.

most mn brexiteers are a comfortably off bunch

I think its spot on

Loads of leave voters ON MN seem to have enough money to shield themselves from any potential hardships (albeit short term)

Or at least they think they do

Personally the people i know who voted leave have the same standard of living as people who voted remain

_anecdata obviously

There are millions of EU citizens like me living in the UK frustrated at how this is all playing out. I'm lucky in that I was able to get permanent residence a while ago but not the settled status yet because I don't trust the app or the Home Office.

What would happen to the EU citizens who are carers for their families but can't work at the same time or even other disabled people?

And we couldn't vote in the thing that affects us as well.

you.gov poll from late last year

Curiously the electorate seem to be shifting since more information has come out about Brexit. The demographic of the UK isn't what it was 2.5 years ago.

I think a lot of people on low incomes voted leave believing that their lot couldn't get any worse.

If you take a bunch of fed up, disenfranchised people who feel like their needs have been ignored for decades and you give them a binary choice between "same shit" and "different shit", they are going to pick "different shit" every time.

Unfortunately, the "different shit" isn't necessarily better, and might well be worse.

most mn brexiteers are a comfortably off bunch - for whom price rises, job loses, declining nhs and state schools and visa problems are nothing...

Well that’s not actually true though is it? All the polling data has shown that the only social groups in society which voted Remain by a majority were the wealthiest AB social classes and that the poorer you were, the more likely you were to vote for Brexit. If you think this is going to be seen as a victory for the working classes anywhere outside your own head, you’re very much mistaken.

Nope, the polling data shows that you are more likely to vote leave the less educated and the older you are. Sorry. Older people in this country tend to have wealth in property too, right?

Besides, I said MN Brexitteers, by that I mean people on MN (!) who are still very pro-Brexit. Not many people are, you see. Most people wised up over the past couple off years, whatever they voted.

I'm glad you came back though, why don't you tell us some of the benefits we can all expect to see after Brexit - perhaps especially how food and medical shortages and price rises will benefit the poor in particular??

kicknack, yeah,that’s a bit like saying that someone getting divorced can sit down and write out a plan saying they’re keeping the house, the car and all the money, agreeing with the kids it sounds like a plan and then giving the plan to their spouse and expecting them to agree. We can’t ‘just come up with a plan’ when there is another party involved.

What we actually needed to do was to send someone who was good at negotiating there who was committed to the idea of Brexit instead of Theresa May who was half arsed at best and deliberately subverted the process at worst.

But it’s basically finished now, the MPs get to make the final call and that’s going to be Remain.

Obviously Remainers think that’s it, all over. And that the whole thing is going to be forgotten about and never mentioned again. That’s almost impossible though. It’s the biggest vote for anything that we’ve ever had.

There’s been a general feeling across the west for some years that politicians are detached from the way ordinary people live and think and feel. That’s created ripples of populism which haven’t had a great deal of effect in the UK aside from the referendum. But I think if remainers are deluded enough to think leavers are just going to shrug and forget about it and docilely go back to voting for Labour and the Tories then they are going to find themselves very much mistaken.

Especially as Remainers have been through a two year spasm of hysterical anger and have said some truly appalling things to leavers.

I think anybody who thinks this is finished are in for a nasty, nasty shock.

Obviously Remainers think that’s it, all over. And that the whole thing is going to be forgotten about and never mentioned again. That’s almost impossible though. It’s the biggest vote for anything that we’ve ever had

No remainers I know think that. But I'd rather work out problems without the added stress of a folding NHS, food shortages, an economic crash and enormous job losses.

We can’t ‘just come up with a plan’ when there is another party involved.

When the other party is a rules based organisation it's not hard to take some time to understand the rules.