to not understand why we haven't just sacked off Brexit?

[HeyNannyNanny]

Disclaimer: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know this has been done to death so feel free to ignore if you're sick to the back teeth of Brexit shite. Please don't pelt me with buns and gin bottles for bringing it up. No snapping. No farting.

I don't live in the UK at the moment (though I'm British) so may well have a very skewed perception of the whole thing, but it seems that Brexit is hated by a shocking number of people, has managed to go spectacularly tits up before its even happened and whispers was arguably not wanted by the majority of the population anyway.

Every time I look at the news, there's further arm waving, frothing and photos of Theresa May looking like she's hoping for the ground to swallow her up, stories of the MPs rejecting this, the EU rejecting that, Nigel Farage doing something stupid, Boris Johnson nowhere to be seen etc etc.

But there doesn't seem to be an official suggestion that we just...don't do it.

Have I missed something? Is there some reason why the Government is battling on ahead with such a shit show, when there is a (seemingly) perfectly reasonable and easy alternative right there?

I'm at s point where it doesn't matter if it's brexit or no brexit (I'm a remainer, but it british). I just want to have a solution so I know how to plan my life with my British partner. This no man's land makes it hard for finding employment and renewing contracts and making summer travel plans.

While I really wish for UK to remain. I don't think another vote or just remaining would be democratic. I can understand a few points that have been made for brexit and I also think that most people who voted didn't fall for the false advertising. Sure, some did but also a lot of people do have critical thinking skills. That being said, this whole shitshow makes UK look ridiculous and it's not exactly making EU look great.

xingming and in the meantime? People can’t just be told not to have babies unless they can pay a private midwife. You need at least a 10 year lead-in for that kind of change.

SUrely the UK must bear some blame for failing to train young people in the professions that will be needed in any generation?

God, yes. And the reasons why we are here are many and complex...

But we are where we are, and changing it would require quite a lot of cash and time. Neither of which are easily come by, right now...

Just in case you missed my analogy, the appendix is a small and non performing appendage to the whole organism. The NHS is only part of the economy and should not be permitted to distort its function. I know it's a sacred cow, to be worshipped, and how important it is to everyone with a poorly relative.

xing certainly it’s true that the NHS was only one of Aneurin Bevan’s five evils. The others, well housing, now that really does distort our economy. Perhaps if we didn’t have an economy driven by inflated ‘equity’ in homes and private debt, unprecedented levels of educational inequality etc, we wouldn’t be where we are. Inequality makes relatively affluent people look over their shoulder at far more successful people and feel dissatisfied - and next thing we know, we have brexit.

But we are where we are. Maybe at least brexit will teach us some humility and to appreciate that we really did have it quite good!

Figment, a child isn't an entitlement. People have had babies without medical interventions since prehistory. The female human body does it naturally. Healthcare has helped the survival rate, which is why the planet is at capacity.

xing Well I guess going back to medical prehistory is one option. Something else to look forward to.

Didn't mean to offend Figment. I just don't believe that the whole human race can "have it all". while they are entitled to believe they should have a shot at it, some will fail.

It might be unwelcome to point it out, but the UK is not just the NHS with a country attached like an appendix.

not unwelcome to point out anything but quite bizarre- has anyone suggested or implied or argued that is the case?

it reminds me of the other point you made earlier: that the eu is not utopia. again, no one, afaik, has or would argue that.

Not utopia but not dystopia either which is where we appear to be heading.

I don’t recall anyone, ever suggesting that the EU is a utopia.

However, in the face of the rising power of Russia and China and an increasingly disengaged USA, I know who I want as my allies.

Many suggested the UK out of the EU would lead to utopia.
Oh the fucking irony.

Because it was voted for and we’re not a dictatorship

If there were a referendum on capital punishment and, as is very likely, the vote was in favour would you still say that?
Single issue referenda always go the way of the biggest lies, people actually were dumb enough to believe what was written on the side of a bus!

People who want to live in Europe, who are undertaking dangerous overland/oversea travel from sub-Saharan Africa, clearly think there's a Utopia. From rural Mali, would you not think a country where every village had a school and medical centre, offering free services, was not better than a walk to fetch water every day followed by grinding hard labour to achieve subsistence?

AT the risk of getting flamed, could I just say that Europe is not large enough to accommodate all the people who think they would like to live here.

There is a real requirement for the peoples of such countries to step up to the task of making their countries places where people want to live and work and vote to create their own versions of desirable societies.

It took Europe 20 centuries.

@TheVanguardSix is on the money imo.