to not understand why we haven't just sacked off Brexit?

[HeyNannyNanny]

Disclaimer: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know this has been done to death so feel free to ignore if you're sick to the back teeth of Brexit shite. Please don't pelt me with buns and gin bottles for bringing it up. No snapping. No farting.

I don't live in the UK at the moment (though I'm British) so may well have a very skewed perception of the whole thing, but it seems that Brexit is hated by a shocking number of people, has managed to go spectacularly tits up before its even happened and whispers was arguably not wanted by the majority of the population anyway.

Every time I look at the news, there's further arm waving, frothing and photos of Theresa May looking like she's hoping for the ground to swallow her up, stories of the MPs rejecting this, the EU rejecting that, Nigel Farage doing something stupid, Boris Johnson nowhere to be seen etc etc.

But there doesn't seem to be an official suggestion that we just...don't do it.

Have I missed something? Is there some reason why the Government is battling on ahead with such a shit show, when there is a (seemingly) perfectly reasonable and easy alternative right there?

Utter shitshow.

Walkingdeadfangirl but what are they? Because I've asked numerous people and nobody seems to have one answer beyond controlling the borders.

Surely it can't all have been that? There must be more to it.

if you can't see the advantages then obviously you don't believe we should be leaving and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise

I’m getting tired of this ‘get out of jail’ card being used by leavers in response to this question.

Tell you what walking. You answer the question asked and I’ll take the time to really absorb and understand your POV.

I posted this on another thread but it sums up Brexit for me.

visited a business a little time ago (as part of my job). Business was just sales, warehousing and distribution of a particular product. Product was manufactured by the American parent company in the US and Mexico. 88% of sales were to the EU, product landed in the UK and was then distributed across Europe. The office staff were mostly British and the warehouse staff about 50% eastern European. The company's 'no deal' Brexit planning is registering the company in the Netherlands and looking for premises there. There is no way the company is viable in the UK in the event of no deal. Lots of the staff were celebrating when Leave won.

This example just sums up the stupidity of Brexit for me. Ironically, the eastern European staff will be able to keep their jobs by moving with the company to the Netherlands and the British staff won't be able to because they will have voted to take away their own rights to FOM as EU citizens. .

I'm confident we will get through this and in 5 years time will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Yes @walkingdeadfangirl

Please tell me what are the top 5 advantages of leaving the EU from your POV? I am also genuinely interested because I have heard absolutely nothing other than 'We won, you lost, get over it, end of', which isn't very helpful.

Please.

We have, the attorney general has refused to change his advice and says the assurances May got don’t go far enough. The MPs are going to vote down the deal then vote down no deal so we’ll default back to Remain and Nigel Farage will win the next election and I hope you all feel really happy with yourselves.

Tonight in 2016 people were asked to choose between remain (the status quo) There was no status quo whichever way you voted. the EU is getting rid of the national vetos and moving to QMV; indeed, on the EU seizing control of member states finances, this was interesting:

'The proposal describes how the Commission Work Programme for 2019 will “streamline” decision-making, for “more efficient” tax law, by “removing the need for unanimous agreement by all countries”. The rationale is that with “no effective Single Market in taxation”, this contribution to President Juncker’s “Agenda for Jobs, Growth, Fairness and Democratic Change” will “give renewed momentum to the EU”.

As a non-legislative initiative, the change will not need the approval of the other EU institutions; given that Treaty change is not required, approval from all Member State governments will also not be necessary.'

Thus, the veto is not deemed necessary any more over an area of national competence?

Remainers on here ask Leavers where will we be in a decade after Brexit. None of the Remainers can tell me where we will be in a decade after remaining. I don't think it is anywhere they would recognise, or even perhaps want to be.

In 5 years the UK will still be negotiating post Brexit trade deals. Thinking this ends on 29 March is more leaver fantasy. This is the end of the beginning.

what do you mean 'get through this'? your job, your home, your medical supplies not on the line then?

honestly, the crap people come out is mind-boggling.

if you can't see the advantages then obviously you don't believe we should be leaving and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise

Remainers keep on asking this question because we've described what we think will happen to the UK in the event of Brexit ("Project Fear") and it will be great to be relieved of our fears.
We see worrying developments like international companies leaving the UK, UK businesses like Dyson leaving, the US circling the UK so that they can sell us chlorinated chicken and expensive pharmaceuticals etc and it would be great to know what we can look forward to.

The problem for leavers is they that they spend their time criticising the EU but never outlining competently how the Uk will work outside of the EU. That is why we have stalemate in parliament. No plan.

What about all the Brits abroad, who were disenfranchised?

hopefully posters and lurkers realise by now that most mn brexiteers are a comfortably off bunch - for whom price rises, job loses, declining nhs and state schools and visa problems are nothing...

Hasn't this been done a billion times?
1- A majority of those who voted, voted to leave.
2 - Those who did not vote don't count now and shouldn't be voicing any opinion as they had their chance and could not be arsed.
3 - If there was a second referendum (which is in fact a 'people's vote'), then I and many others would surely expect the right to a similar second referendum or election where the result was not acceptable to me .... and then would there be a third one, etc etc ....
4 - Yes, no-one could foresee quite what chaos it would be, but if the government offers people a vote then it is fairly reasonable to expect that government - and in fact all the politicians - to follow through and make it happen.

None of the Remainers can tell me where we will be in a decade after remaining.

Clearly none of us can predict the future.

But personally I’d prefer to be among strong allies in Europe than standing alone with an increasingly powerful China and Russia on the rise and a potentially more protectionist and marginalised US standing on the sidelines.

But I guess we’ll be taking our chances, huh? Let’s hope Putin plays nice.

Nigel Farage will win the next election and I hope you all feel really happy with yourselves

He will have to join a party with a hope in hell of getting a majority and then manage to win a seat in parliament first. 6th time Lucky?

gokartdillydilly, there are positive and negative arguments, both exist and have been done to death. If you haven’t bothered to enlighten yourself as to what they are within the previous two years it’s not really worth anybody trying to close stable door now that particular horse has bolted. I don’t know why you sound so smug about it. It doesn’t make you sound half as clever as you think it does. Actually you sound like someone monumentally dim who hasn’t really bothered to familiarise themselves with the argument, and I’m not sure quite why anybody would want to be so publicly pleased with themselves for admitting that.

"The Government made it clear that a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market and the customs union."

So why have they been fighting about it like rats in a sack ever since June 2016?

oh yeah, far far better to write paragraphs about how you wont lower yourself to answer questions - in a discussion thread no less! - than actually do a quick list of the benefits the average person can expect.

I'm sat watching the debate, looking at all the empty seats & the MP's playing on their phones. It's time they gave the decision back to the people because they obviously aren't capable of doing it.

@LaurieMarlow

*But personally I’d prefer to be among strong allies in Europe than standing alone with an increasingly powerful China and Russia on the rise and a potentially more protectionist and marginalised US standing on the sidelines.

But I guess we’ll be taking our chances, huh? Let’s hope Putin plays nice.*

^ this.

Plus any kind of dubious trading shit that comes from the Giant Orange Baby.

We'll be sitting ducks.

He will have to join a party with a hope in hell of getting a majority and then manage to win a seat in parliament first. 6th time Lucky?

He’s already started a new party. He’s been an MEP for 20 years without defeat, his UKIP received the largest amount of votes in the 2014 EU election.

His new party is the single issue Brexit Party. What happened pre-referendum is really irrelevant. A majority voted leave, all the major parties have gone back on that. All bets are off, but it wouldn’t even need every leave voter to back them for them to win a majority in many, many seats.

Keep on kidding yourself. We’re going to Remain and Corbyn is going to be PM and it will all be Utopia.

There was no status quo whichever way you voted. the EU is getting rid of the national vetos and moving to QMV

Well, there was actually.

Voting to remain would have meant remaining in the EU with all of our existing opt outs and rebate, and on the understanding that "ever closer union" would not apply to the UK. Furthermore, thanks to the European Union Act 2011, any further transfer of powers to the EU by ay of a new treaty would have been subject to a referendum in the UK.

Whilst it is true that the EU is seeking to make certain votes subject to QMV rather than unanimity for EU legislation (for example, in the area of taxation), this does not mean that member state rights of veto are being abolished. It does not mean, for example, that a new treaty could be implemented without the consent of all member states, or that a new country could join the EU without all existing states being in agreement.

No offence, but your post does rather smack of "Project Fear".

do look at the old threads though - the poor brexiteers have lost 95% of their arguments. the intelligent ones sussed this pretty quickly.

the other ones are just desperately clinging on with their 'democracy means never changing your mind' - but then if you are wealthy and 'dont give a fuck about the economy' then youve got nothing to lose i suppose.