to not understand why we haven't just sacked off Brexit?

[HeyNannyNanny]

Disclaimer: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know this has been done to death so feel free to ignore if you're sick to the back teeth of Brexit shite. Please don't pelt me with buns and gin bottles for bringing it up. No snapping. No farting.

I don't live in the UK at the moment (though I'm British) so may well have a very skewed perception of the whole thing, but it seems that Brexit is hated by a shocking number of people, has managed to go spectacularly tits up before its even happened and whispers was arguably not wanted by the majority of the population anyway.

Every time I look at the news, there's further arm waving, frothing and photos of Theresa May looking like she's hoping for the ground to swallow her up, stories of the MPs rejecting this, the EU rejecting that, Nigel Farage doing something stupid, Boris Johnson nowhere to be seen etc etc.

But there doesn't seem to be an official suggestion that we just...don't do it.

Have I missed something? Is there some reason why the Government is battling on ahead with such a shit show, when there is a (seemingly) perfectly reasonable and easy alternative right there?

I was under the impression that we wouldn't get an extension unless we made concessions like Gibraltar in order to get Spain's vote.

We need to accept that most people didn’t care about the truth, it was based on emotion. They went along with the sound bites because it resonated with their ideals.

A lot of voters wanted to stick it to Cameron and would go for the opposite of anything that he was endorsing.

The Eu refused to discuss brexit before Article 50 had been triggered, so it would be hard to know how it was going to proceed.
The GFA should have accounted for this scenario.
I have no doubt that remain would win a second referendum, because all the talk has been about the stupid and racists who vote leavi doubt a lot of teenagers will give it any thought because they know the ‘correct’ answer, rather than the (non-bus slogan) reasons that leavers voted.

But there is no advantage in conversing

There isn't anything more to say on the subject, its the same old nonsense over and over again, we are tired of repeating it all and just receiving abuse in response. This thread is a perfect example.

All that is left is to get on with leaving the EU.

Then perhaps find a new hobby walkingdeadfangirl

I’ve heard badminton is quite enjoyable.

In all seriousness, it seems that there is a very particular problem owing to the unique history and geography of the UK and Ireland, which means that neither can easily leave the EU while the other stays.

There are many countries in the world which have hard land borders with other countries which function perfectly well, but it just isn't that simple between Ireland and Northern Ireland due to the history. Other countries in the EU could leave more easily without it necessarily giving rise to such issues. (Although now I think about it, if France left the EU then there would potentially be a problem with Spain and Portugal being cut off from the rest of the EU.)

Of all the EU member states, it would probably be hardest for Ireland to leave (if the UK was not leaving) as they would have the same border issue as we do, but they would also have to transition to a new currency, and politically I can't see them ever wanting to return to the pound.

It shouldn't be harder for some member states to leave than others, but it is.

I'm a steadfast remainer, but you can't deny that leaving is much easier in theory than it is in practice, which is a bit of a problem from a democratic point of view.

I don't think that Remain would win a second referendum.I think Leavers are more determined to leave than at the time of the referendum, the young won't vote in big enough numbers and the abstainers just want it over with and continue to stay away. I'm a Remainer who lives in an area that voted similar to the final result (Leave 51.4% Remain 48.6%)

SilverySurfer is the bot-lite that keeps saying 'it's not rocket science', like that's some kind of penetrating comment. It's a bit sad really; especially if this is the kind of drivel-spouter that politicians are selling our country down the river to appease.

It’s the glibness of Leavers that astonishes me. It’s patently clear that brexit is a shite idea, yet they still claim to be excited and looking forward to it.

It's because they don't understand the consequences, though think they do. I used to work closely with a government financial inclusion unit. They used to say that 50% of the population don't know what 50% is. I used to view this as a joke. Having seen the calibre of debate and understand amongst leavers, and an inability to weigh up simple economic data, I now believe it to be true.

@walkingdead There isn't anything more to say on the subject, its the same old nonsense over and over again, we are tired of repeating it all and just receiving abuse in response. This thread is a perfect example.

But you haven't actually said anything, or have you?

I think that young people who have gained the vote since the last Referendum should be given the opportunity to turn out and vote for their future.

For those of you saying a majority want Brexit stopped, leavers don't generally join in these threads, or openly talk about how they feel in real life, because of the vitriol directed at them, and at Brexit. This gives a very skewed idea of the percentage of people for/against. I have lost friends over it because they didn't accept the way I voted, yet I would have been happy to agree to disagree. In my experience it's not the brexiteers who are intolerant.

it seems that there is a very particular problem owing to the unique history and geography of the UK and Ireland, which means that neither can easily leave the EU while the other stays.

It’s not a problem if they stay in the single market.

But the details of leaving were never really discussed at the time.

I campaigned for remain, still support remain & think the next few years will be cataclysmic however, at the end of the day, my vote is not worth any more than Dave from Sunderland as an earlier poster put it and we have to accept democracy.

Because democracy.

Anyone who thinks the young people who have become eligible to vote since 2016 wouldn’t turn out for a second referendum is deluded. Leavers wouldn’t get a second chance to ruin the future of the next few generations. Bring it on.

For those of you saying a majority want Brexit stopped, leavers don't generally join in these threads, or openly talk about how they feel in real life, because of the vitriol directed at them, and at Brexit.

In fairness, that is what most polls seem to be saying now.

But regardless of any polls (because we all know they are unreliable), in 2016 people were asked to choose between remain (the status quo) and a completely undefined version of leave.

The remain campaign was shit, I won't deny it, but they were also constrained by reality. The leave campaign were allowed to paint a fantasy picture of Brexit, which would be all things to all people.

Given how close the result was, I can't see any reasonable objection to allowing people to confirm whether they still want Brexit, now we have a better idea about what it actually looks like.

@Walkingdeadfangirl I've not read any fact based points made on the benefits of the Leave vote her.
Please - state your points. I'm genuinely interested to hear them!

Perhaps they decided that with the pack of lies and false promises versus lack of information and apathy, they couldn't make up their minds.

No sorry. Piss poor excuse. If people felt strongly enough they should have got off their arses and voted. If you didn’t bother to vote then you lose the right to complain when the result isn’t the one you want.

Anyone who thinks the young people who have become eligible to vote since 2016 wouldn’t turn out for a second referendum is deluded

Absolutely.

Youngsters voted at similar levels to the adults in different age groups

Im fed up that this 'youngsters didnt vote' myth that keeps getting peddled

In the Referendum 37.5% of people who cared enough to vote, voted Leave, while 34.7% voted Remain. The Government made it clear that a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market and the customs union. It also made it clear that they did not think this would be a good thing.

In 2017 we had a General Election in which the campaigns of two parties: Labour and Conservative, undertook to leave - again, the single market and the customs union. Those two parties received 87.5% of the vote.

So our politicians have a problem. They've now decided, despite their pronouncements in 2017, that they don't all want to leave. But they don't agree on how to proceed. Some want to just ignore the electorate and cancel Brexit. Some want a fudge, Brexit in name only, where we are still under the regulations of the EU and in the single market and customs union, but don't have a seat at the table. Some want to do what the electorate, when given a choice, asked them to do.

But they have a clear mandate from the electorate to really leave. So if they do what they think best they thwart the clearly expressed wishes of the electorate. We don't know what the consequences of that would be, bearing in mind that the electorate were asked and were told that their decision would be implemented.

The elderlies are worse as they voted for Brexit yet it won't affect them as they won't be here, but will surely impact negatively upon their future generations.

MistressDeeCee. Do fuck off with your nasty ageism.

But the newly voting youngsters have had over two years of observing the Brexit shit-show, up close and personal ... That's why polls show 75% would vote Remain, I imagine.