Nanny problem - dizziness

[Yoonie]

Dear all

Need some advice regarding a new development that concerns my 60year old nanny. When we hired her 6months ago, she was active, vibrant, full of energy and enthusiasm.

After Christmas, she was diagnosed with a dizziness problem (with severe headache and vomiting) and went 2-3times to the doctors to get tested. The blood results came back and she only informed me that there is no cure (no pill) she can take and that she just has to live with it. She has not been forthcoming with the medical condition since then.

Now, as I have had a lot of time after Christmas to stay at home, I noticed a big change in her activities with my 9months old baby. In the past two months, she has not gone out of the house with her. Except the two times that I insisted that she takes her out (it was such a beautiful day!). She went out reluctantly and cited that it is too cold for the baby and that her eyes were runny.

Her attitude has also changed a lot, before she was a positive and energetic person and now when I ask her to prepare meals for my 7 year old son, she insists that she cooks at home and bring them the next day. Once it took her over 2 weeks to bring the food to my son. That was not part of the deal and she asks to be compensated for the extra hours she spent cooking at her house too, which I did not ask. She can in fact cook while my 9months old baby is sleeping but she only does puzzles during the 1.5 - 2 hour nap which she takes two times a day. So I feel a little short changed. She also does not do any little house chores which are in her contract.

She also does not go to fetch old books from my 7 year old DS1, which is on the third floor of the house (town house), which puzzles me as I told her repeatedly that it will be good for DD2 to start to look at books. I suspect that she does not feel confident enough to walk up the staircase and back down.

After talking to my sister-in-law last week, who had an auntie with dizziness problem and stayed home 3 months after fainting, I got scared. I feel very uncomfortable leaving my very active baby in her care. I cannot leave the baby alone for 5minutes as she is crawling everywhere and trying to standing up every second. She can get into trouble any second, if unattended by an adult.

Lastly, when I asked her last week to accompany me and my DS1 for a swimming lesson (it was close to her husband's restaurant), instead of hanging around the swimming pool centre, she insisted on taking her to her husband's restaurant for 45minutes and for me to pick up my baby after the swimming lesson. This involved her driving my baby on the front seat of the car (which she does with her granddaughter, but I was too shocked to even respond). I think she is doing this to protect herself, and her not being forthright about her condition is making me paranoid and uneasy.

Please tell me if I am being paranoid or if I have start taking measures to let her go. My DH is very much against a dismissal based on her fitness to work. But I feel that I have to request from her doctor a written confirmation that she is able to carry on her work with her condition. Am I being too harsh? Please be honest with me. I want to hear your honest thoughts.

@Stuckforthefourthtime

OP clearly stated that they've paid the nanny her 2 months notice, and told her not to come back.

Having a busy morning with my dd and lots of errands!
Yes to be clear we paid off the two months notice but she is no where near my kids!! Not risking my kids life with her.

Am very let down by the references esp as I spoke to them on the phone. For 20-30mins. The two references covered about 15years of her work so I am seriously disappointed that they never noticed some of this. I thought I could rely on references but I guess not. My ex-nanny also seems clueless why i let her go and keep calling me wanting to talk. Told her that her screaming in front of my dd has put me off wanting to talk to her for now..(i forgot to mention that right?)

Will definitely have a watertight contract next time but I am slightly traumatised by this whole series of unfortunate events that I might have to take a breather before looking for a new nanny.

We paid off two months notice as that was on our contract as a normal ending of a contract and not as gross negligence.

I have to say that this MN forum really saved my troubled heart...!! So encouraging and so enlightening. Thankfully I was able to see through the mud and see what the true issue is. In a very short space of time! Thank you for your kind words and for helping me through this. I honestly don’t know what I would’ve done without you guys!!

OffToBedhampton - yes, I told my DH that I want to take care of my kids on my own without help for a while. Need some time to heal from this.. Will have to put my uni work on the back burner for a bit. Still have to sort through the mess...

A part of me thinks that I should have given it to her straight and just go through the list of all grievances (3 pages long I have prepared for my DH). That way, she will stop bothering me and my husband. Maybe I think I came across too soft. Having said that she did leave me a more conciliatory v-message this morning. That it would be too sad if she were never to see our family again. So maybe at least my kids can have a proper goodbye.

@TheInvestigator you're right, I missed that. Sorry OP!

Ask your husband not to return any calls from her. She is trying to divide and rule, which is manipulative.

If either of you have any further communication from her, then you respond (if necessary) and point out that you are the contact for any further correspondence.

I would add that from my own experience, if it is not working, it is not working. I have done similar pussyfooting in my time with a nanny who was not delivering the goods or carrying out her duties. There were always reasons, and in reality she did what she wanted to do. That is not on. They are your kids and you are the manager.

You want to be fair and reasonable, but in the end you have to do what is right (or safe) for your own DC.

*Ask your husband not to return any calls from her. She is trying to divide and rule, which is manipulative.

If either of you have any further communication from her, then you respond (if necessary) and point out that you are the contact for any further correspondence.*

What do you mean here? What sort of trouble do you foresee? My DH is feeling very guilty for not returning her call....

@ Imperfectsusan

I think she may be hoping to find a way back in as your nanny. That if she comes back to 'say goodbye' she might be able to influence you into feeling sorry for her, giving it another go, coming in to tide you over while you find someone else etc etc.

There is zero point in her ever seeing you all again. Your son is not bothered by her departure and for very understandable reasons you are relieved that she is no longer working for you. Your husband may be feeling guilty but I bet day to day he has the least to do with her and was least exposed to the inadequacies of her childcare.

Stay firm. So not respond. You've done the hard part. If you agree one more appointment with her it will look in your diary as a day to be dreaded. Don't put yourself through it!!

Yes you have a baby and a 7 year old that doesn’t really mind - I can’t see the point of another meeting as it’s unlikely to make you or dh feel any better and your children don’t need it. There’s not a basis for friendship with someone that you can’t trust to look after your children, even if you suspect there might be circumstances on her side that explain it.

Stay firm. So not respond. You've done the hard part. If you agree one more appointment with her it will look in your diary as a day to be dreaded. Don't put yourself through it!!

Oh my... you may be very right about this...

Also your point about her finding her way back in... by saying goodbye.... that is a very scary thought but you may have a point here...

Ignore any further contact. There is nothing left to say or discuss now. She has only been there a short time and your baby will forget her quickly and your DS isn't bothered about her, nor was she nice to him. She probably wants to have a last say. I am inclined to now think that she was taking the piss more than there was a genuine reason due to illness and she probably thought she was on to a cushty number with you coming across as a push-over. No professional or half-way sane person would shout in front of the baby. For that alone, I would never speak to the woman again. Should anyone ask for a reference, then be candid! She sounds like she is a few sarnies short of a picnic.

@Yoonie
I think you've dealt with it so well and am impressed how kind and thoughtful you've been throughout. And there's no question that you put your DC first, despite cost and impact on your working life. I'm so glad that MNs has been of such a great confidence builder and help to you xx💓💓 This is AIBU at it's best.

Please reassure DH he has no reason to feel guilty for not replying to her if it doesn't suit you both. It's no longer about her and unlikely will in reality benefit her either. She's being paid in lieu of notice for two fully paid months doing nothing with plenty of time to job hunt/start new job early during that period.

Incase it comes up (i.e. she asks), chat together ready with DH first if you should give her a reference, as what can you confidently say (?) other than "she turned up on time and was sometimes nice ..(but also neglectful to my baby DD, ignored my DS, didn't do her job...)" I'd want to politely decline if she asks ("We are unable to give you an enthusiastic reference, you'd be much better asking someone else")

I think you & DH can draw a line in the sand and ignore her texts and messages? Baby DD won't miss her and DS certainly doesn't sound like he will. It'll be too awkward and to what benefit to your family to meet up with her?

I'm curious at the screaming in front of DD? It's so not what a childcare expert would do!! (She
must knows she's not been safe & is neglectful, as you'd rather pay her off than have her work out notice. She's not daft and knows what she's did).

In my experience, any further meeting up might be uncomfortable/ futile, more about her trying to save face. There's no need to play 'let's pretend'. If she'd cared so much, she wouldn't have been so neglectful.

You're quite right to be annoyed at previous referees and I totally understand you want to gather your emotional reserves again. But from people's replies (both Nannies and employers) it does seem she's been unusually rubbish as a Nanny in the UK. I think having gone through this, you'd definitely spot a bad apple quickly next time, but probably won't experience it again as by far majority of Nannies actually relish their jobs and their little ones. It's a privileged role that could have been fantastic as you sound lovely employers.

Sorry, I took.so.lomv to type that out (big fingers small screen!) That other PPs have made same points but better X

*so long

(Just proved that I have big fingers small screen 😊😂)

You’ve done the right thing, and very well.

Don’t give her an ‘in’ to any more communication. She’s tried to get different responses from you and your husband, which is a massively unprofessional and underhand way to behave. Don’t entertain it.

She’s gone. You’ve behaved well in ending the situation. Full stop.

Time to lick wounds, regroup as a family then work out what there is you can learn and develop from what happened, and move on.

The single biggest error I can see in what you’ve told us, is that you didn’t start off establishing clear working expectations and a working relationship. You tried to establish a nice relaxed personal bond, as a grandma type figure in the house, and expected that a more professional role would somehow come later. You’ve got that the exact opposite way round I’m afraid! You start with the professional, and if that works well for both parties, over time it a more personal bond develops.

As a general rule of thumb, boundaries relax over time, they never get tighter. So you have to start off as firm as you need to, not way too relaxed for you and hope it will get better.

Also another tip to remember is that you see the best of someone in the first couple of months of employment. When they are making an effort. No one starts off bad throughout their discretionary period, and ends up suddenly pulling it all together and becoming a wonderful employee and a great fit with the family! Again, it goes the other way round. I used to give people so much time to ‘prove themselves’ thinking they needed time to settle in, time to learn the ropes, time to get used to the hours, time to get used to the train route etc etc etc.

It took me ages to realise that it’s really, really obvious when a good employee is learning the ropes, and when someone is showing you the sum total of their motivation and ability to do the job. I was just being super hopeful and being unrealistically generous ... and setting myself & everybody else up for a worse time because of that!

Final thought by the way: just wanted to repeat, don’t feel guilty about those still trying to excuse all her bad behaviour, incompetence and unprofessionalism on this lady’s (speculated) illness / disability.

As someone who became suddenly and devastatingly disabled through serious illness several years ago, I know how it rips your life apart. It made working very hard, but I could continue as long as I was allowed to experiment in order to find new ways to do things with my new and crappier body.

But there is a tendency for people to label someone with disabilities, and only see them as disabled. So everything becomes about the disability, everything gets filtered through that lens. Which is why lots of posts became about seeing that nanny through the lens of her disability, and nothing else. It’s not actually doing her any favours to think like this!

@OffToBedhampton - I would be very reluctant to give her any references tbh. I have to speak to my DH about this but given that those references got me into trouble, I would be very unwilling to do this to anyone else.

As for the @WellThisIsShit - I am also coming to the same conclusion that I may have taken a relaxed approach too soon. I will definitely take my time to let the next nanny prove herself in different situations during the probation time. And yes, it was less about her illness/disability and more about her sub-par job performance. In the end, she was doing only a third of her job description (before excluding the safety hazard bits).. I was mortified when I came to realise this...

You can give her simple references of the format "XX was employed by us as a nanny from.xx to xx date" and give your phone number. Likely she won't use this, or if she does, they can phone you to discuss.
If they do, you can be very factual about her duties, absences etc and avoid mentioning disability (which after all is speculation as she did not after all disclose one to you).

@ Yoonie

I'm and you thought about that. You're ahead of me and my little thoughts. Tbh you've done everything that a great parent and childcare employer would do, and I cannot fault you in any way.
In fact I admire you and your kindness xxxx

glad not and. Sorry mistype 😁

I think she doesn't accept your decision and thinks that your husband may be more disposed to see things her way. That there may be some advantage. If she is thinking of an unfair dismissal, she may also hope to get a different reason for the dismissal from him. Best that only one if you deals with any further correspondence-which is you, since you dismissed her.

I agree with@Wellthisisshit too. A nanny agency owner once said to me that it was important to be clear what you want, and also not to say "if you have time", as then they invariably don't. If you want x, ask. They find time, in most situations.

Also, if you want to pay full sick pay and not ssp, add it back as a bonus at the year end for good work, rather than offer it as a built in perk, to discourage a less scrupulous nanny from taking lots of time off.

Yes that’s excellent advice on specifying more upfront, that’s something we learned too.