Nanny problem - dizziness

[Yoonie]

Dear all

Need some advice regarding a new development that concerns my 60year old nanny. When we hired her 6months ago, she was active, vibrant, full of energy and enthusiasm.

After Christmas, she was diagnosed with a dizziness problem (with severe headache and vomiting) and went 2-3times to the doctors to get tested. The blood results came back and she only informed me that there is no cure (no pill) she can take and that she just has to live with it. She has not been forthcoming with the medical condition since then.

Now, as I have had a lot of time after Christmas to stay at home, I noticed a big change in her activities with my 9months old baby. In the past two months, she has not gone out of the house with her. Except the two times that I insisted that she takes her out (it was such a beautiful day!). She went out reluctantly and cited that it is too cold for the baby and that her eyes were runny.

Her attitude has also changed a lot, before she was a positive and energetic person and now when I ask her to prepare meals for my 7 year old son, she insists that she cooks at home and bring them the next day. Once it took her over 2 weeks to bring the food to my son. That was not part of the deal and she asks to be compensated for the extra hours she spent cooking at her house too, which I did not ask. She can in fact cook while my 9months old baby is sleeping but she only does puzzles during the 1.5 - 2 hour nap which she takes two times a day. So I feel a little short changed. She also does not do any little house chores which are in her contract.

She also does not go to fetch old books from my 7 year old DS1, which is on the third floor of the house (town house), which puzzles me as I told her repeatedly that it will be good for DD2 to start to look at books. I suspect that she does not feel confident enough to walk up the staircase and back down.

After talking to my sister-in-law last week, who had an auntie with dizziness problem and stayed home 3 months after fainting, I got scared. I feel very uncomfortable leaving my very active baby in her care. I cannot leave the baby alone for 5minutes as she is crawling everywhere and trying to standing up every second. She can get into trouble any second, if unattended by an adult.

Lastly, when I asked her last week to accompany me and my DS1 for a swimming lesson (it was close to her husband's restaurant), instead of hanging around the swimming pool centre, she insisted on taking her to her husband's restaurant for 45minutes and for me to pick up my baby after the swimming lesson. This involved her driving my baby on the front seat of the car (which she does with her granddaughter, but I was too shocked to even respond). I think she is doing this to protect herself, and her not being forthright about her condition is making me paranoid and uneasy.

Please tell me if I am being paranoid or if I have start taking measures to let her go. My DH is very much against a dismissal based on her fitness to work. But I feel that I have to request from her doctor a written confirmation that she is able to carry on her work with her condition. Am I being too harsh? Please be honest with me. I want to hear your honest thoughts.

Well, it is done. We gave her the two months notice. It didn’t go down very well. Didn’t mention anything on her illness. Told her that the relationship and communication with me is not working and also that it is the relationship with my DS is not there. She was stunned. I told her that we will give her two months pay and she need no longer come in this month. But that we are happy if she wants to come and visit one or two more times. She just kept saying that she didnt have a chance to bond with my DS and that we should get a cook if we expect her to cook for my son. Then left the house without looking at the DD, no goodbyes no good luck. I did say good luck but think she was too emotional to hear anything after that. Very sad day. My dd seems very sad and then quietly fell asleep just now. Don’t know how else I could have kept it civil. Part of me is relieved but part of me is very sad.

You've come across on here as very empathetic and kind, so I'm absolutely sure you'd have been as respectful and nice to her as you could have been. But there's just no good way to do it, and no good way for them to hear it. I'm sure you made it as easy as you could.

You've made the right choice for your family, that's what you need to focus on. Her response makes that even clearer. One role of a nanny is to cook for the children, and she's still telling you that she shouldn't need too, so she wouldn't have changed if you'd given her that option. Or she'd have tried but the atmosphere around her wouldn't have been pleasant.

Looked up on the car seats regulations and it seems to be legal to put a maxi cosi on the front seat if the air bag is switched off. Very strange rule. They do mention that the safest seat is the rear seat in the middle where the impact is the least. So it was not possible to go down the gross negligence route. Didn’t mention this point to her either but I just do not feel confident in her ability to take care of a small baby any more. It made me rewind back to the couple of times where I saw her doing things which were unsafe but didn’t think much of it as I didnot suspect that she would be that ignorant. But that incident has made me view the whole thing in a different matter. Also if she had NOT told me about the conditions this January, I wouldnot have accepted any of the slacking off. Some of you questioned me on being assertive enough or not.. Or the way she was only willing to do things on her terms. Just didn’t feel like arguing with sm who is ill and not well. Well... would you? Guess could have given her a few warnings.. to make the blow softer.. but her condition thing made me cloud my judgement... feeling very shaken by this experience but happy that it is done...

you did the right thing. Youve been more than fair. Hire a cook!!! what next a nannys help??

TheInvestigator - I guess you are right. It is never easy or pleasant to do this. I tried to keep it as short as possible and thought that if I mention that our communication/relationship is not working, she would kind of get the message. Guess i should have kept it there though. Mentioning my son and the cooking made her suddenly very angry. Should have listened to my first instinct.. she kept asking for more details which is why I opened up a little.. a big mistake... should have kept mum.

2 months' notice is a lot of money. Did you have to give that much as she's only been working with you for 6 months?

At least she is likely to go quietly.

Well done @Yoonie
That can't have been easy but at least your DC are safe now. Costly but safe way to do it. I think you dealt with it kindly and carefully. Her anger is shocking, she's been there 6 months but "not had time to bond yet with DS????" Not bothered more like, she actually sounds rather unpleasant, believing she is above cooking for the children in her care. Her reaction ought have been apologetic and conciliatory, and worried about what she hadn't done, not defensive.

Can you ensure she signs something to say she's accepting two months pay in lieu of notice in agreement to leave immediately? Do you think that would be needed?

Just make sure you follow your disciplinary processes in how you write it up (you have to keep records). Seek advice on this please, just incase.

Good luck in finding a new lovely nanny. Maybe put a 6 months probationary period in next contract with shorter notice within that period?

I got her to sign a letter (prepared ahead) that she had received the notice. Ideally in this case she should have worked till the end of her notice but I lost all confidence in her ability to do so, so decided to let her go immediately. I asked her to return our house keys as well. She didn’t go that quietly after all as she has been trying to call my husband all morning. And also me. As she left very emotional (stormed off...), I didn’t want to immediately respond. Maybe in a few days I will text her. My DH is asking if he should call her back. Apparently she left him a vmail that she would have wanted to know what she could have changed.and that she wants him to call back.. I warned him that this would happen so he asked me what to do.. oh dear.. What a mess...

Well, as you were both her employers then she can ask him if he likes, but you need to present a united front so that nothing can come back on you from giving her different stories.

But you should just repeat what was said today, and don't answer anything else. Just that you felt communication wasn't working and the children weren't bonding with her, and tasks were not being completed the way you wanted them done despite there being several "debates" with her so a continued relationship was untenable.

Her anger is shocking, she's been there 6 months but "not had time to bond yet with DS????" Not bothered more like.

Well as I was picking up my DS from school, I informed him that the nanny will no longer be coming as of today.., and his response was, yeah the cleaning lady is much nicer to him than her. He felt she was not friendly to him and even when the DD was sleeping she didn’t try to reach out to him. That surprised me once more...as I had forgotten about this time when I left him in her care once when he was sick and I had an urgent errand... she didn’t bother to look up what he was up (for three hours).

As for the disciplinary action, we don’t need to follow that route as we just gave her a normal two months notice. In our contact, both sides can terminate the contract without reason with two months notice.

Next time I will definitely have a longer probation period (6months) and shorter notice (1months) and a clearer job description and detailed disciplinary procedure for sure. What a nasty experience that was...

In our “contract” it says...

She is angry because she is frightened. She knows she is unlikely to work again due to her illness. That is a very frightening place to be.

But you should just repeat what was said today, and don't answer anything else. Just that you felt communication wasn't working and the children weren't bonding with her, and tasks were not being completed the way you wanted them done despite there being several "debates" with her so a continued relationship was untenable.

Oh my god, that is exactly what I would tell my DH to tell her., Perfect. Thank you!!!

She is angry because she is frightened. She knows she is unlikely to work again due to her illness. That is a very frightening place to be.

I understand that but I am equally disappointed that she didn’t do some research on what is possible with her new condition and then inform us how we can make some adjustments, like shorter working hours, or less responsibilities, given her condition. If I were in her position, that would have been the first thing on my mind. To be a responsible carer, no matter what illness. What really disappointed me is that she put my baby’s safety at risk. When the car seat incident happened, I realised that she may be fast and loose with “safety” in general... that is why i had to act fast...

She may be frightened, but you and your family can't be expected to accept substandard care. If she had played it differently, then with your support, it may not have been an issue at all. Instead, she simply stopped doing things and expected you not to notice? She even expected more of your money when she decided she would cook at home and you should just pay extra for that. It's not really forgivable when it's your children's care.

As a business owner, I forgive a lot and do what I can to help employees but in my family life, I don't because it's more important. I'd have done the same as you OP. If she'd reacted differently then it may have been different, but that didn't happen and you've made the right choice for you.

I agree it could be Meniere's. Causes dizziness, loss of balance etc. I think to be safe you need a new childcare person. What would you do if a bad accident happened and you hadn't acted on already very dangerous information? Your nanny sounds like someone you'd love to continue with you. Perhaps you could find temporary care whilst telling her she must have medical checks? And provide proof of fitness before taking on any childcare in the future. Sad and harsh but it's your child at risk. 💛

First talk to your husband. Tell him your concerns. I would be terrified to leave a baby with her. If she blacks out whilst alone with your baby anything can happen. You then need to ask her for info on het condition and say you need to know she can carry out all aspects of her job which includes the things in her contract she is not doing. Tell her you need to see evidence she is fit from her doctor to ensure the safety of your child if she cannot provide this or fulfil her contracted duties then its time to let her go. I get her not wanting to fetch a book from 3rd floor incase she passes out on the stairs so you do need to make some allowances in the mean time but ultimately if she cannot carry out the job you need someone who can so your not worrying about her health and the impact it has on your babies safety.

RTFT people. @Yoonie has already (quite rightly) given the Nanny notice.

Yoonie, well done. You’ve made the right decision for your children. It must have been very difficult but it’s done now. Your next Nanny will be someone who can and do all the things in her contract!

*can and WILL do. D’oh.

Glad you got it sorted @Yoonie.
Does that mean you have to look after LOs until you can afford to replace her?
Hopefully your DH can take over so you can get some of your uni work done evenings and weekends in meantime.

I'd also be about let down by previous referrees. As her attitude towards safety, towards your DS and feeding children is nothing to do with dizziness or health. How she ever worked as a Nanny with her neglectful attitude surprises me. Lucky you were home for a temporary period to spot it. It's bad when a child says the cleaner was nicer to me than the (paid to care for and entertain children) Nanny! 😮

She royally took the p and is upset she's been discovered, so I wouldn't feel sorry for her in the slightest. I'd feel cross she let my ignored DS, my left in play pen for hours baby DD and our family, down and took money for her poor service when we could have had a better, more caring Nanny all along.

You are seriously having her serve her notice and therefore risking your DD in her care for 2 more months? And have your DS ignored?

Her notice period does not apply when there is gross misconduct. Pretty much all pps said to pay her off with a small payment (less than 2 months and get rid immediately).

I'd suggest that as soon as you find a new nanny you have them start as soon as possible, pay off the remaining notice, and make sure that you have an absolutely watertight and detailed new contract, as you and your DH are clearly nice people, but are putting your need to be nice to your employee above the care of your dcs.

Stuck, OP is not having ex-nanny work out the 2 month notice. She's paid her off for the notice period.

She wants you to hire a cook? How bizarre, you did the right thing. It’s my favourite thing about being a nanny cooking for my charges. I love cooking and baking.